1. A lot of maps are made for Quake. Most of them are glquake compatible. Which means 1996 era functionality, which is fine except this means that no true progress has been made.
True. And if they use a custom engine, there is no regard for compatibility or accessibility.
Quake2 can do non-linear play from map to map, for example.
This hasn't caught on because it was, simply put, over most people's heads. There were also games who did this in a horrible way (Hexen II). You mean you have go somewhere and do something, instead of killkillkillfindexit?! This isn't an RPG you know?
Technically, a hub system is a great way to have gigantic levels, but chopped up into manageable pieces. 600 monsters in a level? No problem with the hub system.
In Quake, monsters only know attacking and idling
Sadly, yeah.
-- you can't have some monsters guarding something valuable
Oh boy, how I would like that.
but that's ok because Quake can't do inventory either.
Haha. Yeah. See above though, most ppl simply don't want this. There was a lot of "excitement" when I suggested having custom keys (and then logically an inventory) in that one gameplay discussion thread at func.
But tbh it would be OK if they could simply guard a door or something, instead of following the player across the entire map and getting slaughtered where the terrain disadvantages them. Heck, it would be cool if they knew basic combat rules at all, like "go for higher ground", "fight in a group" and "flee when you're weak".
Or NPCs or events (well simple events are ok).
... see above.
But there isn't anything about map editors that wouldn't support more immersive environments.
True. To be sure, a lot of what you list exists in several obscure mods, but simply wasn't used by mappers.
You can get a relatively good idea of what most Quake SP mappers want when you look at Quoth and maps that use it.
Games that have objectives, inventory, hub system etc. (Quake 2, Tomb Raider, Hexen II) do not really get honorable mentions, to put it lightly, from diehard FPS people. They're "gay". It's seemingly impossible to discuss only gameplay mechanic X without being hit over the head with the "image" of the game it's from. But that game sucked, man!
Even physics... Gyro has existed for years, but how many SP maps have used it?
id Software for the most part didn't advance the concept of single player after Quake 2
Yup. There seems to be no agreement on how (or even if) to enhance it.
I think I just tend to scoff at the notion of advancing 'plots and storyline elements', as this has led to nothing but pure consumption of the game, rather than playing a role in it.
That's also true, it's rare that game designers strike the perfect balance. However, it's not always true for non-FPS titles.
The best stories in games I have seen are in non-FPS titles. Baldur's Gate, Vagrant Story, Final Fantasy III. RPGs in other words (not necessarily AD&D based, though).
But I'll gladly take any story over none at all; "you wake up and Earth has been taken over by monsters" isn't enough for me. Even if you end up playing through the game as if you're on rails... I'll prefer that. The key is probably combining a good story with enough sandboxiness.
Interesting NPCs go a long way to making a game more satisfying. The more, the better. Any NPC should have its own subplot, even if the player has no real access to it. Finding a dead marine is one thing, finding a dying marine who tells you how he got there is better. This should be optional though (ie you should be able to shoot him and move on).
A big collection of different monsters and a big collection of NPCs (why no female soldiers, civilians etc?!) would be desirable. I don't think this would make an FPS any worse, unless interaction with them is forced on the player.
Games have a long way to go yet.
Diablo
Baldur's Gate
The Quake based engines are certainly easier to create assets for
This is often said, but I wouldn't subscribe to that. Up to a point, probably, yeah. Making a room in Quake is easy. Printing a smilie on a texture is easy. Making a .mdl or animating? Voice acting (how if there's no story)?
Making maps for Starcraft is easier, btw.
Quake 2 was slightly harder to work with than Quake
It depends, lighting a map is easier for example, plus you have stuff like hint brushes etc. and don't mention rotating entities. Quake 3? You can make better looking curves etc. Not everything got harder.
the pretty deep stories are slowly revealed by overheard conversations, scraps of diaries etc.
That seems a good way to do it, especially if the player isn't really forced to listen to or read all of it. Another example is Baldur's Gate (not an FPS, ok), where in the beginning you have no idea why people are assassinating you, and why some people want you dead, and what all that has to do with the iron crisis. You don't have to follow the story much, i.e. you can travel and kill monsters and have bar fights absolutely fine, without ever worrying about the story, but it's there if you want it. It's quite masterfully done. Most assassins have a note on them that is often quite interesting. In every bookshelf you'll find some obscure book about the history of Faerun, which you COULD read (I normally don't).
In Quake, they had a theme going with the marines invading the monster's dimension, but it was cancelled too early and not consequently done. I could imagine computer logs from various people, found on laptops throughout abandoned camps, abandoned barricades with dead marines/monsters strewn about, stuff like that.
Quake 2 had drop pods crashed into the scenery, especially Reckoning, which was primitive but it made the game better. But that, too, wasn't done consequently. The pods could have had audio recordings of the attack, for example, or parts of weapons, or even stimpacks... It would have been so easy
A little effort would have gone a long way.
I believe the reason people make deathmatch maps or "remodel things that don't need remodeling" is otherwise they'd need to depend upon a team to accomplish something.
This is a main factor, if not the single most important. 99% of Quake mods and maps are solitary efforts, while the really good ones are often team efforts. Nehahra, Quoth, Travail, Zerstorer.
It sounds reasonable on paper - the rewards seem greater than working in obscurity by yourself, but the reality is there's a lot of factors working against that kind of collaboration.
I think it can be narrowed down to a few factors.
Typically, there's a game design war where no one can actually agree on what you are making.
Factor 1. Solution: Everybody takes two steps backwards and shuts up while the others are talking. This fails in 99% of cases though. It's probably human.
Basically, if you encounter someone who can do some things better than you, or is more level headed, then you should follow him instead of fight him. This will benefit you a lot more in the end.
This requires basic social skills and 10 wisdom points - ah, what am I saying, wisdom isn't even needed here. Intelligence is enough - you profit from finding a leader and following him. People have known this for centuries, but today it has become a lost art. Everybody can't be the boss. Get used to saying "You're right" and shutting up about it, unless you are very sure that you have a point. I mean really, really sure, after thinking long and hard about it.
It doesn't matter if you get paid - this will ALWAYS benefit you. Find a master or a leader and join him. Even if he/she (you don't have problems with females, right?) is only a tad more experienced than you. Step back and support them, and the team will work.
Leadership however is another matter - a good chief knows that he can't prosper without his warriors. He knows that they have CHOSEN to follow him, and that he must show himself worthy. Treat your team badly, and you'll be challenged to the holm, as every good little Viking knows.
Basically, no one in the team should overestimate his own importance. Accept that others might do some things better than you. It's OK, there are also things that you do well, otherwise you wouldn't be in the team.
Collaborating, even talking to people, seems to be a huge problem for many.
As selfish beings, we usually evaluate teams as a potential chain around our neck
Beg to differ. Those 10 wisdom points will tell you otherwise. I used to think like that, but have been proven wrong by failing. It's like the difference between klampfing away in your bedroom and playing in a band. O_o
Playing in a band is much more difficult, because you'll have to deal with people. Oops. But once you did it for 6 months, you'll see you made more progress in that short time than during all the years of solitary doodling!
Perhaps I was just lucky to find a very good band full of determined people... but today I wouldn't think twice about joining the nearest team instead of locking myself away in the bedroom.
Working in a team (I'm not talking about a paycheck type of team here necessarily) is the most rewarding experience you can have, but maybe you'll only ever notice it if you drop out.
A working team is like coming into a warm kitchen from the cold, not like a chain around your neck. Like heroin
at best, restrict us from what we want to make (our ideas)
No. At best, your ideas become part of the hive mind. Sure, 99% of them will be dropped, but again in the best case, you'll understand why and agree with it, and have learned something from it. If Project Lead regularly drops your ideas without explanation, you crack their skull open and become Project Lead yourself, simple. Watched The 13th Warrior? Gotta love open source. It's called a fork and happens regularly. Not satisfied with how the mod came out? Why, release an addon pak so people have the option to play your version. No reason to go ballistic.
at worst can drag us to the bottom (completely fail, losing all the hard work we put into the project).
You can also fail if you go solitary, it's actually more likely. As for the work, you can usually salvage it (unless you signed some sort of NDA) or recreate it. You'll also learn from failure.
For a singleplayer project you'll also encounter the time budget problem - people only have a set number of hours of available time to devote to projects - large projects such as a single player projects have needs disproportionate to the time and talent available to the team making it.
Yes. Then it will take years. How is that bad? You can always knock up something at the sideline and release it, if you want the recognition.
But that's the best part: When working in a team, you get recognition _permanently_ from the team members.
In the Open Source community, it is also standard to have a "rolling release" practice. Everything is open, and everything is in constant development. This means that people constantly use beta versions, if you will, and you have a trail of tiny updates instead of "work three years, then BAMM! Release it and forget it".
The same is possible with Quake mods and even maps. Nothing prohibits a map from growing and becoming more interesting or functional. There is zero problem with people playing "beta" maps, which are in progress, and just downloading an update when the mapper releases one, and which may allow them to see a new area. There is nothing "cheap" or "wrong" about this.
Honestly, I don't see the problem. Thousands of projects work this way.
I would like to live in a world where people can make some mindblowing games easily (no I don't mean graphics and effects although that too, I mean the realization of a story or a concept).
Some efforts like that are underway, although they are (still) genre-specific. You could call these things meta-engines. Two examples from the Open Source community:
1. Spring; an RTS engine that allows for creation of vastly different games (many exist already).
http://spring.clan-sy.com/wiki/About
2. GemRB; reimplementation of the Infinity Engine, aimed at running and creating AD&D based games like Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale and Planescape: Torment. Emphasis placed on moddability, you're meant to create your own game with this eventually. Still alpha.
http://linux.prinas.si/gemrb/doku.php
I suppose 20 years from now, we could reach the next level, where meta-engines would no longer be genre specific and you could do both an RTS and an FPS with the same engine.
20 more years, and we'll maybe have the holodeck which can run all sorts of games...
Interesting discussion.
when I select singleplayer I want a story, I want to feel sorry if somebody on myside dies. I want to feel happy when I do something right in the story.
I share this opinion.
The human mouth.
It later got a middleware upgrade in the form of writing, and a distribution model via the printing press.
Very clever. Put books in the game then. They're just a distribution model. You should like Baldur's Gate then. It's a model of storytelling
