InsideQC Forums

Some of you I already asked for input, others saw me talking ages ago. This is a delicate matter so I want to make sure I do the right thing.

5 years ago a coder approached me for beta testing his Joequake-based engine for Windows and Linux. I have been using that engine since then as it is simply the best. Always tried to make him release it publically but it was not ready.

We were in loose contact, exchanging bug reports (me) for fixes plus gazillions of new features (him). The last beta I got from him was more than 2 years ago. Shortly after our mail exchange dried up. I haven't heard from him for more than 2 years now. I did mail him from time to time.

At some point I asked for the sources to be included:

me wrote:And I would really like to have the source code. I would not release it unless you vanish for a year.

he wrote:That's probably a good idea. I'll trust your word, and include the source with the next release.  [And then I can torment you by disappearing for 360 days, only to emerge to say "Haw-haw!  Start counting again"

So, now what do I do? The engine is still the best there is to me in terms of features, user-friendliness and stability. I always thought it should be public. From our exchange I would say I am all cleared to release it but it feels incredibly weird and uncomfortable to do so "behind his back".
Your thoughts?



edit: Argh, that is a short title limit.

Honestly, waiting more than double the proposed upper limit which he agreed to, I think you would be in the clear for this. From your description of it, I don't think you would be unveiling some super secret thing, but rather just a case of solid work that was kept quiet because of a desire to show it in public When It's Ready.

If you feel confident that you've put the appropriate effort into contacting him, and already had a prior agreement to release after a year without contact, it's pretty clear that releasing it would be fine.

i would be interested to see all the new stuf as well!

Could be interresting to see joequake is a pretty configurable engine, i seen lots of cool examples using it.

From what you said seems fair enough at this point to go ahead and release it.
However, if makes you feel better I'd suggest to try a last email remembering your deal terms.

if he's really disappeared off the face of the planet then I doubt he would still care.

as you've mentioned it several times in the past, I think it would make you feel better about it.
go for it, if only to get it off your mind.

The reason why I don't like releasing beta versions of my code is because I know how much some of it is crappy, and I know that if others implement those crap versions of my code in their engines, they most likely won't bother re-implementing my changes when I finally finish polishing them. So, for some people it's just a matter of making sure that the code used by the community is good.

However, when real life hits hard and there's no way to polish the code, releasing the code, even though some of it is crappy and/or unfinished, is better than nothing. He most likely also thinks this way, since he allowed you to release it under such circumstances.

Just make sure you send him an e-mail telling him you're releasing it, so he may eventually know.

Thanks guys!

I did try to find him online and sent mails but without success. I did however find his address in a long burrowed mail thread I forgot to check earlier. So I will send a good old fashioned letter via air mail. I also saw that he posted at func once asking for other beta testers so it was not top secret.

In the worst case (no reply) I'll release it christmas then. Enough time to make a nice homepage for it.

Cheers!

Spirit wrote:In the worst case (no reply) I'll release it christmas then. Enough time to make a nice homepage for it.

Why not just do the right thing and release it now. Only Spike and MH have time for engine coding, and only engine modders are going to be interested (Spike and MH, maybe LordHavoc).

Single player types won't care outside a handful of Quaddicted Linux hackers (those people will ask really, really stupid questions and just be f'ing annoying too because they are bored wannabees playing around) --- no one mainstream at Func will nor QW.nu nor Q1.com.

Quake is a small community --- and you know I think it should and deserves to be larger --- but why not help feed people like MH and Spike with whatever ideas you feel this engine contributes so they can think about it. They certainly don't need "the code" --- do Spike or MH ever need someone's code?????

I'm just saying --- release the code now (or at least the features you think contribute to the pool of Quake ideas) --- you can release the binaries or whatever for non-modders later but don't impair true contributors like Spike, MH, LordHavoc from whatever you think this abandoned engine does uniquely.

You know the people who are on the side of good for the right reasons --- Spike and MH and LordHavoc are on that team.

Right?

[Otherwise you are actually being part of the problem and the world doesn't need that ... ]

[Otherwise you are actually being part of the problem and the world doesn't need that ... ]

Self-righteous much?

if not the source, can you list some of the best things about the engine you like?

not to give away unique features of said engine, but some of the mundane.
for me I added ctrl-x ability in the qconsole. woot was 2 lines of code, but something i would share to others.

Baker, he posted this where it would be seen by the people interested in it. Those people have seen it, given feedback, and appreciate what he has done. This is a small community, though one that is difficult to gauge in scope because most people don't regularly comment. He is acting in the interests of the community, and respecting the original wishes of the creator - if anything, this is an exemplary case of how to handle such.

You don't micromanage a community, you let the good examples do what they do.

' '

I posted here to gauge my moral compass about releasing someone else's not-yet-public work without their knowledge by seeing how others (who are into the same kind of coding) would react.

Maybe it is my cultural background as a German but I care a lot about personal rights like privacy and self-determination(?). I would not want others to release my non-public projects at their whim.


r00k: I might do some hype-building teasers.