InsideQC Forums

bah, fine.
For the sake of argument, I'll stop refering to quake as a dumb client.

QuakeWorld, on the other hand, is a fat client, and its also the dogs bollocks.

Dirge Inferno wrote:

leileilol wrote:

Dirge Inferno wrote: I think the word your looking for is inferior,

No it isn't, and he isn't looking for "superior" either. We aren't little children.

You misunderstood the term "dumb". Even Carmack has described Quake being a dumb client.

Dumb; simplify or reduce the intellectual content of something so as to make it accessible to a larger number of people.

If John called Quake a dumb client then it's obvious he doesn't care about making games anymore and only cares about the $$. Anyway it's not, it's a great game.

What a overreaction...

"Dumb terminal" is a technical term used since the 70's to describe a terminal that doesn't do any "business logic", for a lack of better term; initially it was used to describe TTY terminals which only echoed the user's inputs and outputs to/from mainframes. In that sense, Quake (more specifically, NETQuake) is indeed a "dumb 3D terminal" to the game being executed in the server. Quakeworld isn't 100% "dumb terminal" because it tries to compensate the network latency interpolating the entities future positions based on previous known coordinates (it's more complicated than this actually, but you got the idea). That's what JC and everyone else here had in mind when the "dumb client" term was used.

Alright, you can continue calling a game that made multiplayer what it is today a dumb client. Not my problem...

You are not understanding what these people are telling you. Quake itself is not dumb. The concept, the game, etc...

The architecture employed by Quake's multiplayer is a dumb-client style, where by the quake client is only responsible for displaying the game, and not the logic or physics; that is the server's responsibility. This is the "dumb-client" model. It has nothing to do with the merits of the game itself, or the impact on the industry.

Before you fly off the handle, please try to understand what people are talking about.

Dirge Inferno wrote:Alright, you can continue calling a game that made multiplayer what it is today a dumb client. Not my problem...

Alright, if you want to continue arguing lets argue.

see, he's a troll...

Gee, what a douche. Anyway, back to the technical and meaningful discussion: while being a dumb client certainly makes things easy for modding (less places to put your hands on), is the QuakeWorld codebase better for networking? Specifically, coop? Or the difference is not that big?

/me sighs

Listen pal, when we say "Quake is a Dumb client" we mean that in the same sense as how the rockets fired from the Rocket Launcher would be described as a Dumb-Fire Missile. You...DO know what a dumb-fire missile is, right? As in, like, the rocket flies straight ahead until it hits something.

It doesn't know how to do anything other than fly straight until it's fuel runs out or explode when it hits something. The external world is responsible for telling the rocket where the hell it is and whether or not it hit something and thus should blow up. (because without the external world, there would be no condition for it to blow up on something)

Quake's Server-Client works more or less the same way. The client is the rocket, and the Server is the world.

Now, I hope that I have sufficiently "dumbed" it down for you to understand, because if you keep trying to play "dumb" and bothering our engine programmers with your demands that they drop the technical jargon that has been standard for decades, I'm gonna have to ban you for trolling.

JasonX, the gamecode is not that different between NQ and QW. The changes are really only there because they're imposed by the engine changes. Regarding qc changes, see my first post in this topic.

the quakeworld engine will give you prediction, smaller packets, and lower latencies. but vanilla lacks interpolation so can be more jerky even when playing on a server on the same machine.
vanilla quakeworld doesn't support singleplayer (ie: you need a dedicated server and to have coop enabled to stop deathmatch getting enabled), and coop is buggy too (everything spawns as if deathmatch).
different engine projects have fixed different numbers of weak points.

Spike wrote:see, he's a troll...

You have no proof of your claim, therefore it's not a fact. A fact needs evidence otherwise it's not a fact.

JasonX wrote:Gee, what a douche. Anyway, back to the technical and meaningful discussion: while being a dumb client certainly makes things easy for modding (less places to put your hands on), is the QuakeWorld codebase better for networking? Specifically, coop? Or the difference is not that big?

I'm not a douche, again.

Dr. Shadowborg wrote:/me sighs

Listen pal, when we say "Quake is a Dumb client" we mean that in the same sense as how the rockets fired from the Rocket Launcher would be described as a Dumb-Fire Missile. You...DO know what a dumb-fire missile is, right? As in, like, the rocket flies straight ahead until it hits something.

It doesn't know how to do anything other than fly straight until it's fuel runs out or explode when it hits something. The external world is responsible for telling the rocket where the hell it is and whether or not it hit something and thus should blow up. (because without the external world, there would be no condition for it to blow up on something)

Quake's Server-Client works more or less the same way. The client is the rocket, and the Server is the world.

Now, I hope that I have sufficiently "dumbed" it down for you to understand, because if you keep trying to play "dumb" and bothering our engine programmers with your demands that they drop the technical jargon that has been standard for decades, I'm gonna have to ban you for trolling.

I'm not trolling, or being dumb. And if I'm going to get banned then it'll be for no reason, I haven't violated the rules of the forums. You're making a claim based on assumptions, you have no proof that I'm a troll. A troll is someone who intentionally annoys people on the internet.

Dirge Inferno wrote:A troll is someone who intentionally annoys people on the internet.

which you have done in your posts (ignoring the repeated technical explanations of the term) and which you are doing right now

i shouldn't even feed you; just pointing out the obvious because somebody just doesn't get it.

No I have not, I'm not finding this funny at all. In fact I'm finding you and most of the others attacking me extremely offensive and I'd wish for you to stop. From my point of view you're the ones offending me by posting memes/images and calling me a douche, etc.

Nobody started out by attacking you in this thread.

People are genuinely trying to explain to you what a dumb terminal is, and what it means in the context of Quake. You're refusing to listen, you're reading something into it that isn't even there, and you're drawing further conclusions from that. You've come barging into what could have been an interesting and useful thread, you've contributed nothing of value to it, you've annoyed productive menbers of this community, and you've annoyed one of the admins of this site. That's all entirely of your own doing, and any attacks you're getting are entirely on account of that.

You can resolve this mess yourself.

You say that you use dictionaries for word definitions - why not take yourself down your local library, look up "dumb terminal" in as many dictionaries as you can find there, and see what it says? "dumb terminal", not "dumb" or anything else. "dumb terminal". The option is there for you if you want to understand this. You can then accept the correct definition of dumb terminal, drop the "JC said Quake is dumb because he only cares about money" thing, and the whole drama will end. If you apologise for getting the wrong end of the stick you might even earn some respect.

Or you can continue down the route you've chosen in which case the consequences will be your own responsibility.

But from this point forward it's your choice.

You are getting "offended" by people using the correct technical terminology, and insisting on being wrong after it has been explained clearly at least 3 times; all the while acting superior, and treating us as inferior. The fact that people are now making fun of you is not shocking.....

.... and I am wasting my time. I can't expect you to understand this concept, when you can't grasp the concept of a dumb client in the context of Quake without being literal.