Electro wrote:Tei: DP, your engine, and FTE are the handful of engines that bring new things for modders to work with.
Yea, I never used new engine features for eons, but now that I'm getting into it, I wish we had lots more.
I have lots of ideas, but even when I can put them into writing, I doubt they'll be done, because everyone's so busy as it is.
Even so, we're constantly getting new toys to play with from LH, Tei and Spike, as well as all the other people who are helping them. I appreciate that a great deal, and I hope I can make good use of these features in my mods.
The problem however comes with other engines not sticking to any consistant standards (even these engines can break compatibility with each other at times).
I am frustrated when someone says "your mod looks horrible, what's up with those ugly colored circles on the monsters, and why do I go blind when I get shot?" Invariably the person is using ancient old GLQuake or some other engine that doesn't support alpha transparency or a host of other features.
But another problem is inconsistancy in look. Different engines have different effects for, say, TE_GUNSHOT. They also have different explosions, different lighting effects, the list goes on and on. Sometimes I'll spend hours programming an awesome effect, and then weeks later find out it's invisible or looks horrible in any engine that isn't Darkplaces (this happened in Battle Mech - I made the plasma gun create these jagged smoke trails by moving a model around that had the smoke flag; when used in a new engine instead of original quake, however, the effect was invisible). However, if all engines conformed to a single look to solve this problem... they'd all be the same engine, really. About all I can do is say "Please use Darkplaces just this once and I promise to give you a cookie! Otherwise it's not my fault if this mod doesn't look like I intended it to." Everybody's got their favorite when it comes to engines, and DP's mine... for the moment. Not too long ago I couldn't even run DP, and was frustrated by all these "DP-only" mods coming out. This is almost the single reason I've tried to keep compadibility - I should know better than to cut people off for using a different engine.
And besides, from what I've seen from other engines, they're not so bad.
An even bigger problem is with the Quake community not having teams work together to produce mods of a higher standard with more original content. Models/sounds are constantly being taken from existing mods/other games to try and compensate for this, and obviously originality suffers.
Woe is Wazat, for he is the guiltiest of all in this matter.
I usually try to change models a bit when I use them, but my modelling skills are extremely limited, and I have the whole of Quark and QME at my disposal for the purposes of making models and maps, and that's not much. I'm a terrible artist, and I'd rather just grab a model from some other mod than try to make one myself or recruit someone who may or may not produce anything useable.
This has gotten me into some trouble in the Qmap/func_msgboard community, who seem to think I'm a horrible, unforgivable rapist who should be burned alive and can never be loved again, because I've taken models and graphics from other mods and games, like Q3. This crime can never, ever be forgiven.
I noticed not long ago CheapAlert posted a model of a character he'd been working on (a gargoyle of course), only to be flamed and driven out of the community.
I don't know if that flame war truely drove him out of the community, but I'm sure it had some part of it. If I was treated like that over Conquest or some other project of mine, I doubt I'd come back. I've been eyeing HL2 for a while now, but I'm still wary of moving because it's still a bit slow on my compy. A good solid kick in the groin, followed by a baseball bat to the face, would probably be more than enough to send me on my way. Thankfully, this community has been more than patient with me, and I like the people here, most of the time.
/me throws another dart at the picture of shadowwalker on his wall
/me puts the finishing touches on his mailbomb, and writes Chazz's mailing address on it
I have been driven out of communities before. Qmap/func_msgboard was a very memorable one. I got chewed out and even flamed for about everything, including, but not limited to:
1. Not being a mapper
2. The quality of my mods was sub-par
3. I used models, sounds, graphics, etc from other mods and games, which in the mapping community is an unimaginable crime, something that can never be forgiven. Ever.
4. I only made DM mods at the time, but they wanted SP.
5. I am partially conservative in my political views (ie limited gun control), and that is intolerable.
6. I'm not good at making maps. My attempts are laughable. Asking for people's help in mapping for my mods was unforgivable.
7. I was a coder. Forget
all of the above. I was a coder, and that was all they needed to know.
I don't go there anymore. In fact, I have purposely written all my mods since then so that either I can make most or all of the needed maps (later stages of Battle Mech, Galactix), or I could use existing Quake maps and completely bypass mapping all-together (Ace of Nails, Conquest (though I've since reconsidered at the urging of this community), and probably all my future mods).
You don't get anywhere by driving people away. Every once in a blue moon you get an ego-eccentric jerk like shadowwalker or Chazz, who can't work with the community (not the other way around), but generally a community does better if it's a little accommodating to and forgiving to its members.
This is one of the few boards that understands that. The way Cheapalert and Dr.Shadowborg left
really bothered me, because I thought that perhaps I was wrong about the people here. I was much relieved to find out that that thread wasn't the only reason, but I was still a bit disappointed. Neither side should have let it escallate to that point -- it's hard to walk away and let the other guy feel smug about "winning", but still... Inside3D doesn't do this kind of thing.
Worst of all, I knew everyone who posted in that thread, and I know they're all good people, so I can't despise them for it! What's life without an enemy to hate?
I think that was a very poor response from the people of this forum (those who were involved). The community is lacking model artists enough as it is, so when one of them decides to have a go, they get no encouragement.
Agreed, but I must point out Cheapy's fine
Quake Model Depository. There people get (mostly) honest critiques, and they have a place to post their work where it can be browsed and used. I've gotten a number of models from there (many of which I still need to code weapons for in Conquest). Sometimes you can even request models and get them made for you! That's more than the Quake community's had in... years.
We really need to support each other. I've noticed we often give only lukewarm receptions to each other's mods sometimes, because we're all so jaded and wrapped up in our own projects. I'm more guilty of this than all of you combined.
Lately I took the time to play Urre's Qmet mod, and regretted it for a whole two minutes, until we got the server working and I got to play it. It was very cool and very fun, and it gave me ideas for mods I want to do in the future. I'm going to hunt him down till the day he dies if he doesn't finish that mod.
I almost passed that by, because I was too bored with everything to be bothered to play a friend's mod. I'm glad I chose otherwise.
I know I've always appreciated every word of feedback about Galactix, Battle Mech, Conquest, etc. I should return the favor more often.
I keep telling myself I'm going to pour through my hard drive and pick out a bunch of nice models to post at Cheapy's model depository, but I never seem to have the time. One of these days I'll do it, and the quake community will be swimming in models of every size and color. I've just been lazy.
These posts are getting to the point where it's de-railing the precious panda topic, but whatever.
It's just as well. Those pandas creep me out... carving ice with their giant claws, their huge, bloated bodies, their eyes, always watching.... everywhere I go there's those tiny, black eyes, staring at me...
eyes...
When my computer inevitably explodes and kills me, my cat inherits everything I own. He may be the only one capable of continuing my work.
) 
