Remake Quake Winter MP Demo

Supa · Post by **Supa** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:23 am

Hi everyone,

We've just finished our second Remake Quake Demo, this time it's a showcase of RMQ's new MP maps and features.

http://www.4shared.com/file/170876154/c ... qtest.html

mirror (thanks, Baker): http://www.quake-1.com/files/modfiles/R ... 091211.zip

July 2010 point release patch and changelog

RMQ CTF should support most if not all 3WCTF maps, though some will be broken by the lack of a 3W grapple.

Please don't forget to read the documentation for important information such as how the new movement mechanics and items work. :)

Screenshots:

http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files ... /rmq_1.jpg
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files ... /dm2rq.jpg
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files ... /dm4rq.jpg
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files ... /rmq_4.jpg
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files ... /dm7rq.jpg
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files ... ctf1rq.jpg

Our next demo will be another SP focused demo due out sometime next year.

ceriux · Post by **ceriux** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:27 am

very sexy looking. i like that last pic a lot.

Team Xlink · Post by **Team Xlink** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:44 am

Wow!

That looks amazing!

I have heard of Remake Quake but haven't seen or read much about it.

Is it a QuakeC mod or both a QuakeC and an engine mod?

MeTcHsteekle · Post by **MeTcHsteekle** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:41 am

its an everything mod, and ill have to try this ooot tomorrow

r00k · Post by **r00k** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:26 am

I have a good grapple (modified version of 3wave) if you need.
Hm I spent a good 3 years revamping ctf, theres alot of fun code in that mod

Lardarse · Post by **Lardarse** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:56 am

We have our own implementation of the grappling hook.

Additional mirror: http://lardarse.quakedev.com/remake/rqtest.zip

goldenboy · Post by **goldenboy** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:59 am

If there is sufficient demand, we could do either of:

1. allow "grapple everywhere" in legacy Threewave maps

2. Remake legacy Threewave maps with our grapple system

In theory, both are no problem. Long road yet.

RMQ is a mod that started out being about mapping, then quickly became about QC, too, and is rapidly going into the "everything" direction, yes.

Chip · Post by **Chip** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:04 am

I'm watching you, son.

ijed · Post by **ijed** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:21 pm

If there's demand for Threewave conversions then I'd prefer to change their maps to include grapple points. I wasn't for grappling until it was in - now I spend alot of DM time monkeying around with the Cauteriser thinking "Wheeee!"

Localised grapple points allow the mapper to plan out their use as well as not allowing cheap ceiling camping.

Remake Quake AKA RMQ or RQ is about remaking the entire game with advanced gameplay in mind. Graphically things will remain pretty much the same, at least for the foreseeable future.

But the maps, qc and so on are all getting makeovers.

For example we recently maxed out animation frames for the humble Knight, and only by adding more abilities. He now comes in crossbow, zombie and praying versions.

And the basic AI of the creatures is getting improved as well - not Nehahra style dodging, but more unpredictable attack patterns and trying to ephasise the word intelligence in the moniker AI.

Post by **scar3crow** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:03 pm

Maybe I am just terrible at it, but the bots seem vastly more difficult on skill 0 than normal FBX is for me, it was a struggle to get kills, and it was far from a fun struggle.

I am told the explosives and the armor have not been touched, but I found the rl and gl to be both VERY ineffective at killing bots (direct shot to the face with a rocket, bot takes falling damage, 2 more splash damage shots, second one non-gib kills bot - fresh spawn). The flight of the grenade launcher seems like its been reduced, though that may be confused scale playing on remakes of old maps.

The shotguns and nailguns seem cool when running around, but when playing with the bots they seemed far weaker than stock Quake's versions, but the bots had no problems trouncing me with them. When I did get a kill from them, it was always an "oh okay, I guess I'll accept that" rather than "damn skippy, I buried that ssg in his gut!"

I loved the 'void' theme of dm2rq, but many of the textures have bad fullbright bits, and others have an internal light glow to them, but they cast no light in their use in the geometry which looks weird.

The arrows on dm6rq detract from the otherwise great mood; let the player discover those spots. The healing pool is awesome. Why are the hanging torch fixture textures splattered with blood? It looks a bit odd.

I still gasp for breath when emerging from water after a while, despite having a pent.

The nail impact needs some sort of particle effect, from a distance it looks like the nails are simply disappearing instead of embedding.

ctf1rq's courtyard drops my framerate to about 20, with no action going on at all, everything else is 70+.

The angled stairs with the bellish bottom in ctf1rq's courtyard have clipping issues, if you do a normal walk up them taking it from one of the sides rather than up the middle, I get guided into the wall. If I run down the middle, I can feel the 'edge' of that angle change as well.

ctf1rq suffers heavily from minlightitis. It looks flat, despite being very nice architecture.

Projectiles do not feel like they are originating from the weapon at all, namely rockets and grenades.

Between the pogoing and the more sensitive falling damage range, it seems like its impossible to be stealthy in this. I can opt out of pogoing, but it seems like every single dropoff makes an audible pained grunt, and I had a hard time finding drops that didn't do such. It was rather annoying, just moving about a level slowly, still making that much noise.

I liked the walljumping most of the time, fairly fun, though I really wish I could have gotten an extra jump if I had traversed a certain distance (a la UT2k3).

The pickup sounds have nice weight, and the hand holding the shotguns looks nice.

All in all, mixed impressions, though I would be willing to give it a few plays with humans instead of bots to see how that works out.

ijed · Post by **ijed** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:38 pm

Interesting impressions.

I suspected the same about the bots - that they seem to have some sort of buff the player doesn't. Could you keep playing and try a few different tactics? Against humans will help, but the bot simplicity of play makes them a good benchmark.

I think its basically tha we're used to plaing with Q1 weapons, as opposed to these remade versions. Shotguns are more powerful now, but a human rarely just uses it to plug away.

I'm not looking at the src right now and may well be talking crap, but typically the SG at medium range does just as much damage as the original version, but is much more likely to hit, with the higher scatter.

All this boils down to our basic weapon concept, which was to make it toolbox, as opposed to the first guy to grab the RL is king.

The rocket damage didn't change, although it's speed did (lower). Maybe the reduced damage you perceived was caused by a mixture of Rage (low health regen) and the extra pickup items we've got.

Grenades are suffering from a Gyro physics oversight, needing a bit more impetous for the initial shot to maintain their original arc.

We didn't want to nerf th higher teir weapons, which is why the lower teir is now alot better, expected damage per second.

Nails are going to gain a secondary state - something like 1 in 10 having a ricochet thing (no damage, falls to floor). While its true they get lost without the point sprite style particles hopefully the ricochet will redress that.

You found the weapons overall weaker though . . . that's odd. Basically they're stronger, but tweaked in certain ways so that there's not one weapon that outclasses all others. But player perception matters - we don't want anyone who plays to get frustrated by what they see as valid play.

On mapping I can answer for ctf1rq - it's pretty heavy. An open courtyard in Quake just isn't a good idea. We've got a few others cooking so hopefully we won't be excluding people from ctf on final release. Basically a reasonable PC bought in the past few years should run it no problem.

It's light is pretty flat - too much sunlight. Will lower it.

The stairs in the corners of the courtyards? The edges closest to the wall are 90 degrees, clip wise. I could make them convex, but don't know if that'd just be pissing people off in a different way. Feeling the angle change in the middle is because it's not properly clipped. On the list.

Also, the light fittings are red because they can be grappled. Really we should have a new texture instead.

Thanks for the comments.

Supa · Post by **Supa** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:06 pm

I still gasp for breath when emerging from water after a while, despite having a pent. ... The nail impact needs some sort of particle effect, from a distance it looks like the nails are simply disappearing instead of embedding.

Thanks for the catch on both of these. I didn't realise the nail embedding wouldn't be visible at longer ranges, I'll add the particle effect back in and see how it works out.

Projectiles do not feel like they are originating from the weapon at all, namely rockets and grenades.

Okay, I guess we'll need to adjust the shot origins again.

goldenboy · Post by **goldenboy** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:23 am

The higher bot effectiveness is probably due to the fact that they know both the maps and the weapons better, until you catch up.

This is the direct opposite of the "dm3 effect" - they have the upper edge, quite simply, because they know everything, including how and when to use the new, stronger shotguns, and the waypoints don't suck (makes me wonder what will happen once Lightning Hunter gets his paws on them...)

With the shotguns, basically get the guy right in front of your muzzle. A few hits should bring them down. Rockets move a bit slower, which works both for and against you. Grenade launcher is an oversight, it needs the same fix the ogre got

Also, don't underestimate the effect of armour shards (5 armour, of the color someone is currently wearing!) and stimpacks (5 more health).

The rocket damage hasn't changed for a fact

Shotguns have. Make them eat buckshot.

Thanks for the feedback, very helpful.

Also, the light fittings are red because they can be grappled. Really we should have a new texture instead.

Yes, the red texture is a first attempt at communicating grapple points to the player, hopefully later on we can use some csqc to make the crosshair change, or just a new texture.

Basically, everything the bots can do, a player can do better. They don't cheat

ijed · Post by **ijed** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:55 am

Yeah CSQC is a tempting pandoras box of tricks, just got to be careful of feature creep . . .

CTF1's waypoints are a bit poor though, did them in a hurry so they're pretty simplistic.

Post by **scar3crow** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:56 am

I'll be frank, on dm2rq, I set the skill to 0, ran around, got RA and RL, went to the overlook of the trap area, and began spawning bots. A bot appeared behind me - he may have grabbed the YA down below and teleported there - he took a rocket to the face, we both fell down, he took another rocket at the feet, and then a second to the feet and that killed him in a non-gibbing fashion. My internal math may be off, but the second one should have done him in, not the third. It has consistently felt weak (on the impact, I understand they're slower) in other situations.

My experiences with the combat have not spanned across rooms, but rather within rooms, me against another fresh spawn, and one of us dies (hint: it's me). I understand getting the shotgun into their gut and firing, but even on skill 0 they move very inhumanly, and its hard to get into their face, and when I do, it seems like the battle comes down to strictly firing rate. This could be just FBX, and me sucking, but the shotguns FEEL weaker. I understand that they aren't (and the bots have shown this), but at close range so few of the pellets seem too land on something worth hitting, despite being in the center of my range.

These exchanges are all so local, and on fresh spawns, that map knowledge and other items really aren't coming into affect.

Don't want to be a bitcher, but for me there is definitely something up either with the shotguns, or the bots - these events are too Not Fun (and even when I get a kill, it seems like an incident rather than an intent) for me to not speak up about them, and are too much the bread and butter of the experience.

An aside though, its very fun for ogre combat.