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Leveling The Playing Feild

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Leveling The Playing Feild

Postby Team Xlink » Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:26 am

Hello.

I play Quake on my PSP a lot, and one of the highlights of Quake is the online multiplayer.

When I play against the pc users its next to impossible to win.

Is there anyway to level the playing field?

I know its possible through Alias's I found a rocketjump alias by Baker it works good except it uses Force_centerview which I suspect is renamed in the psp engine so I will try to find the right command for it.

Is it possible to do this through the engine? Or the qc?

Are there any engines that have enhanced input support like better mouse movement and more exact aim? Or smoother controls that I could put in the psp engine?

Thank you.
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Postby Wazat » Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:20 am

IMO, the only possible way for someone using PSP controls (or Xbox etc) to compete with PC players wielding a keyboard & mouse is to give them an aimbot, something you never want to do (aimbots are a cheat that give a human player perfect accuracy). :) The differences between the gradual turn method of a controller with the instant responsiveness of a mouse are as profound as they come. Plus strafing and such just feels easier on a keyboard & mouse setup.

The infinite and widely unfathomable evil of aimbots aside, there is another option for PSP players, and that's to segregate servers into console vs PC and not allow them to mix. While this may not seem attractive because it's hard to find servers already, it's better than luring PSP players onto servers with PC players (where they will get raped), or allowing PC players to join servers for PSP players (where a near novice can punk on even experienced players with ease).

You may wish to discuss with an engine coder ways to do this. One way is to change the net protocol to something the PC engines do not support, and to not support the PC net protocols in your PSP engine. This is better than simply filtering in the server list because it keeps PC players from joining a PSP server on either accident or with malicious purpose.

But I may get flamed for even suggesting this. Who knows?
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Postby ceriux » Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:54 am

i like the idea. i think the psp builds should have their own protocol , but servers should still be allowed to be ran off a pc.
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Postby Wazat » Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:18 am

ceriux wrote:i like the idea. i think the psp builds should have their own protocol , but servers should still be allowed to be ran off a pc.


Agreed, dedicated servers do well on a PC and we should support that. You just don't want PC clients connecting.

The problem is, someone will always be able to hack together a PC client that can do it. No matter your efforts, some mistake of birth will always hunt for a way to cheat past you. :(

Still, a standard is better than nothing, even if the occasional cheater will abuse it. Hopefully Quake is obscure enough that most such beasts will leave us alone.
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Postby Arkage » Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:39 am

Yea, I agree PC and PSP should be keep serprate as there is no fair way to make it even. Keyboard and mouse are far better than the PSPs controls.
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Postby Teiman » Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:30 pm

you could always implement a handicap where PSP players start with more health. Other asymetric gameplay features are valid, like make PSP players "shield" regen.
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Postby frag.machine » Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:49 pm

IDK, guys. The idea of segregating groups in our already small community does not sounds good to me, although I see your point and agree that something must be done about it. I think it's the same problem we faced years ago during the rise of aimbots. Maybe turning features like voteban and password-locked servers standard in most engines would be a better idea, since they don't prevent a PSP/PC player to join a PC/PSP server if it's something all parts agree ?
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Postby Teiman » Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:32 pm

Passwored servers is a standard feature for any network game.
Is not supported by quake? oops..
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Postby Team Xlink » Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:14 am

Well, it is hard enough to find a netquake server with players on it already, making two platforms be incompatible with each other is something I want to entirely avoid doing. I was talking about the client side things I could do to make it easier for me.

Like improved aiming accuracy with the analog.
Various alias's.
And so on and so fourth.
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Postby ceriux » Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:44 am

but it would be impossible, reguardless im a noob quake player put me up against a pro on a console i probably would still will. just because i have the pc.
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Postby Wazat » Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:30 am

Dividing gamers in half may be unattractive, but there's only so much you can do to compensate for non-mouse controls. Giving the player an aimbot is potentially very evil. Were the PSP a touch screen like the DS or infrared like the Wii, you could maybe do something with that, but basic D-pads and joysticks are terrible against a keyboard+mouse.

Also, giving the player auto-aiming may still not help. Much of Quake DM is shooting where the target will be, not where he is. With a rocket launcher you fire at the ground where the enemy will likely be in .5 seconds or so. Nails travel quickly but they still require some leading. Adding these things as aim helpers to the engine would be a very bad idea -- it takes all the Quake out of Quake, and turns the player into a pilot (I just steer and press the fire button) instead of a combatant. Doing any less than that, however, may turn out to be too little to level the playing field.

Trying to get PSP and PC controls to compete fairly with each other is a big problem, bigger than I think we want to deal with. Even though different network codes divides the community in half, it's better than combining players under unfair terms.

Think of it this way -- if you're a PSP player, do you really want to end up on servers with PC players? Or do you want PC players to be able to join your games? Almost no matter how good you are, you're going to get stomped.

If you're a PC player you might care less because you get to dominate, but would you want a PSP player on your team? And is it really that much fun to trample players who take half a second or a second just to turn around and aim at you? Frankly, that's not my idea of good sport.

Whether I'm on PC or PSP, I don't want to mix the two unless both sides have agreed in advance.

Aim enhancements will only take us so far, and (if too ambitious/accomodating) may demolish what makes Quake DM what it is. They won't level the playing field at all, unfortunately. That's my opinion.

And besides, there's one crucial thing to understand here. We're not dividing the community in half. We're not taking a huge butcher's knife and cleaving off a huge chunk of the existing community. The PSP community is just getting started, and personally I'm fine with them being allowed to develop on a separate netcode protocol.

After all, QW would not be as strong as it is if it had not been allowed to define its own protocol to improve network latency. The PSP's need is different (not net efficiency but controls fairness), but the need may be just as great or greater. IMO the PSP community may not develop nearly as fast if they can't play multiplayer without some PC player coming along with a ridiculous controls advantage and stomping them. Giving them their own fair & safe PSP-only servers may be the best way to encourage people to play PSP Quake online. Otherwise why bother?

At the very least make it a server option in the menus:
Platforms Allowed: {PSP only (default)} {PC only} {Any}

Just my opinion, not necessarily fact. I'm sure people will disagree and for good reason, but at least consider what I've said. Engine aim helpers may help, but I don't see them going far enough without going too far. :(

(lord I'm chatty today. Sorry for the wall of text.)
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Postby Wazat » Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:39 am

Team Xlink: Sorry, I don't mean to get on my soap box and ignore the original question. I think some aim assistance is at least worth trying. Quake has some aim stuff by default (the aim function), so you could build on that.

If only you could plug in one of those little USB mini-mice. :)

I think some (though perhaps not all, given the limited number of buttons) of the following things would help a lot:

* A command to flip the player 180 degrees to turn around fast; or perhaps 90 degrees to the left or right (depending on what direction the player is turning when they use the command). Perhaps a double or triple tap on the dpad?

* A command to increase the player's turn speed. Perhaps this is a button you hold down while turning (shoulder button maybe), then release when you're pointed in about the right direction and want slower, more precise aiming.

* Perhaps a command to rocket jump. That seems like it would be a real bitch to pull off without a mouse (lots of "pro" players use an alias for rocket jumps even without a mouse)

* A button that can be tapped to instantly aim at the nearest target to your crosshair. Tap only, then you aim from there (keep up with or lead the target). In fact this may be the most useful, along with the button to turn 90/180 degrees instantly.

I hope that helps. It will by no means level the playing field, but it's hopefully a start.
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Postby Baker » Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:38 pm

Teiman wrote:Passwored servers is a standard feature for any network game.
Is not supported by quake? oops..


ProQuake supports it ;)

pq_password

/And any PSP engine is by definition a modified engine. The "well original Quake didn't support that" argument doesn't fly.

ProQuake also supports client versioning. If you connect a ProQuake 3.50 client to a ProQuake server, it reports the client as being version 3.50 versus a ProQuake 4.0 client which it reports as version 4.

Although there would be no absolutely secure way to ensure that PC clients weren't pretending to be PSP clients ...
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Postby ceriux » Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:25 pm

lol you could always a have pc user report thread where if an obvious pc user connected and just started pwning everyone. the author of the engine could receive their ip and it could be banned in the engine code lol!
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Postby Team Xlink » Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:46 am

I tried playing against the frikbot on the psp.

I lost badly.

So even the frikbot is a better player and does better then a human psp player.

It is going to me next to impossible to level the playing feild I have realized.
Last edited by Team Xlink on Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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