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Quake1 Bsp2 Format

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Quake1 Bsp2 Format

Postby Tronyn » Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:01 am

Hi everyone,

I've got a Q1SP map which is too large even for the modern Quake expanded BSP format, and which basically HAS to use the BSP2 format as pioneered by the now defunct RMQ Project. I've heard that other engines aside from the RMQ engine (which I hope will continue to be updated since it's really fast and I like the things it emphasizes/design choices) already do or will in the future support the BSP2 format. I'm hoping this is the case since every time you coders helpfully expand what we mappers can do, we immediately go to the edge of THAT (lol - I remember Carmack saying he created curved surfaces in Q3 as a novelty then his mappers immediately started making whole maps of them). If you want to look at the map I'm happy to send a download link for the last (vised) beta, I just don't want to post that publicly.

The interconnectivity of the layout prohibits splitting the map up (I made that choice long ago) but it'd be nice if I didn't have to force players to use the RMQ engine. Also even the RMQ engine has some bugs, such as grenades (ogre and player) going through the floor (this is not specific to my map I've replicated it in several other maps) and issues specific to this map like problems with the display of water and the player getting out of water.

I think that's it for now. Thanks,

Tronyn

PS, if you want to see my other/earlier maps, see Quaddicted.com.
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Re: Quake1 Bsp2 Format

Postby Spike » Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:45 am

build it and they will come...

is the theory, anyway.
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Re: Quake1 Bsp2 Format

Postby taniwha » Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:21 am

Give me a bsp2 map and I'll give you bsp2 support in QF :). Conflagrant Rodent made me add extended bsp support ;). Elements (eels) made me add fog support.
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Re: Quake1 Bsp2 Format

Postby goldenboy » Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:30 am

RMQ isn't quite defunct, it just had a fork happen to it and the remainder renamed itself Schism. The Schism project are the ones who maintain BSP2 and the RMQ engine now, until they say otherwise. ijed is the one to talk to.

DP, FTE and DirectQ support BSP2 as well, not the same version though. Havoc wanted a couple cosmetic changes, and as far as I remember these were also agreed upon but not implemented in the RMQ engine and compilers.

In general, the DP version of BSP2 is the one we last agreed on. <--- !

It involves changing the magic bits to "BSP2" instead of "2PSB" and switching to floats for mins/maxs
(leafs and nodes).


With maps such as yours (which I assume is huge), there might be performance problems in DP though, according to my experience. Performance is much better in RMQe and FTE. So, like Spike says, build it for the engine it runs best in, and then let other engines support it.

Bundling an engine with your project isn't a capital crime. :wink:

Edit: To make myself clear, the way BSP2 is implemented in Darkplaces should be regarded as correct, and the way it is done in the RMQ engine and tools is, at the moment, incorrect since it has not been updated to the latest standard. To my knowledge.
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Re: Quake1 Bsp2 Format

Postby Seven » Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:38 am

Tronyn wrote:PS, if you want to see my other/earlier maps, see Quaddicted.com.


Hello Tronyn,

This forum might not be as map oriented as the "mappers paradise" http://www.celephais.net
but I am pretty sure that your name is well known :)

I am personally a big fan of your work and am happy to see you registered in here as well.
This maybe means we will see some nice masterpiece maps with extended QC-mechanic as well... (like necro does)

It is good that engine devs are supporting high talented mappers to fully life their visions and do not restrict them to old format limits.
A warm welcome Tronyn.

Best wishes,
Seven
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Re: Quake1 Bsp2 Format

Postby qbism » Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:05 pm

Was "BSP2 for Engine Coders" ever released? I noticed that new build of hmap2 automatically switches to BSP2 if limits are exceeded.
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Re: Quake1 Bsp2 Format

Postby goldenboy » Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:58 pm

http://kneedeepinthedoomed.wordpress.com/downloads/

It is in the RMQ SDK.

The BSP2 tools / RMQE should shortly get the required update.
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Re: Quake1 Bsp2 Format

Postby qbism » Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:43 am

Cool, I'll check it out.
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Re: Quake1 Bsp2 Format

Postby goldenboy » Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:27 pm

I was unsuccessful trying to cross-compile TxQBSP2 for windows 32, which is the only OS it *ever* compiled for.

Hence I could not make the required changes to the RMQ BSP2 tools.

This means right now, Lord Havoc's hmap2 is the only correctly working, actively maintained BSP2 compiler in existence. You can use the RMQ BSP2 tools to compile your map, but they don't support correct BSP2 and BSPs produced by them won't run in Darkplaces. You'll have to ship the RMQEngine (or FTEQW) with your project if you choose that route.

Personally I recommend abandoning the Quake 1 tools and formats if you're doing anything outside the traditional limits. Otherwise you're in a world of hurt.
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Re: Quake1 Bsp2 Format

Postby taniwha » Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:14 am

Who has a bsp2 file I can test? Note: "BSP2" rather than "2PSB" (ie, dp).
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Re: Quake1 Bsp2 Format

Postby taniwha » Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:46 am

Ok, I've got preliminary bsp2 support* in a local branch of QF. Now all I need is a suitable bsp2 file with which to test.

* It doesn't seem to break bsp-29 support.
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Re: Quake1 Bsp2 Format

Postby goldenboy » Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:47 pm

http://icculus.org/remakequake/bsp2test_gb.zip

taniwha, try this? I quickly compiled one of my old scraps as a BSP2 file (with hmap2).
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Re: Quake1 Bsp2 Format

Postby leileilol » Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:45 pm

I wanna put BSP2 in Engoo also, but after qbism figures it out

debugging in msvc6 in windows 7 is a big pain
i should not be here
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Re: Quake1 Bsp2 Format

Postby taniwha » Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:25 am

goldenboy: thanks, that helped. It looks interesting, but now I've got to figure out the protocol extensions it needs: I found the edge of the map :/
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Re: Quake1 Bsp2 Format

Postby Spike » Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:35 am

aye, thanks gb :)

taniwha: with an fte server, sv_bigcoord 1, whether you're connecting via NQ or QW protocols.
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