When can I be sure all entities are spawned?

[LordHavoc]

On a fairly related note, does anyone know why is it that the startup sequence behaves differently when you have the console is down as you start the map, as opposed to when you don't. It causes all sorts of entity related bugs and so knowing why it happens might allow a fix on the qc side for some of the bugs. At the very least, understanding what causes it should allow an engine side fix...

I've been wondering that for ages! I never realized it was related to the console being down. I think this is fixed in darkplaces, but it's good to know for Quake.

[Lardarse]

It's the reason why SDA don't allow you to have the console dropped at map start...

[neg!ke]

Never heard about this issue before. Can you elaborate? What kind of entity related bugs does it cause, for instance?

[Preach]

The example I can think of off the top of my head is on wrld11(a map on SDA). Without the console down, you pick up a nailgun and ammo as soon as you start. When you start with the console down, these items get "item fell out of level" errors and removed.

[neg!ke]

Ah, yes. It happens when items are placed in or under the info_player_start. Another example would be items being suspended on (non-hack) func_walls which either drop to the floor or fall out when (re)starting with the console down.

[Dr. Shadowborg]

Another one I've noticed while testing hellsmash and my prior mods is that occasionally a few monsters end up as undamagable blocking statues. O_o (This can happen in any map)

[LordHavoc]

Another one I've noticed while testing hellsmash and my prior mods is that occasionally a few monsters end up as undamagable blocking statues. O_o (This can happen in any map)

That happens when their pain or sight function is called while they are not damagable, for example while dying, I don't think this happens in id1 but it certainly is an easy problem to create in mods that modify the FindTarget behavior or try to revive monsters or change their death behavior (for example an ice gun).