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Create .bsp models from within maps

Discuss the creation of various model formats for Quake engines, and related matters to modeling.

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Re: Create .bsp models from within maps

Postby ceriux » Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:14 pm

in worldcraft/hammer i think you just select all the brushes and right click group. or theres a button that is for grouping dont remember. i think jackhammer behaves exactly the same. but dont quote me.
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Re: Create .bsp models from within maps

Postby Dr. Shadowborg » Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:03 pm

What ceriux said.

First select one of your desired brushes, then hold ctrl, select the rest of your brushes, then right click, group. Note that this group only works if you save your file as a .jmf, saving as .map format will forget your group. Note that you will need to use a modern compile toolset like tyrutils or bjp, as it saves in the superior valve 220 .map format. (superior because it saves some texture scaling / location data stuffs, unlike the older .map format)

Not a problem really, if all you want to do is create some external .bsp model for use ingame.

Beware of complex geometry doing this though, as I don't think you'll get proper collision the way you would with a baked-into-the-map brush. (simple box type geometry should work fine though...I think.)

Offtopic: I don't know if there are any q2bsp compile utils that support using the valve 220 .map format yet...haven't had time to investigate that much yet...if there isn't, somebody should make some.
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Re: Create .bsp models from within maps

Postby mankrip » Sun Oct 26, 2014 11:20 am

Dr. Shadowborg wrote:Beware of complex geometry doing this though, as I don't think you'll get proper collision the way you would with a baked-into-the-map brush.

External models does get proper collision, as long as their entities are set to SOLID_BSP.
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Re: Create .bsp models from within maps

Postby Cobalt » Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:09 pm

Ok, nice !

I was able to group them, then did copy into a new map like Scarecrow said earlier. I did : 'move to world' figuring thats what converts the absolute brush coordinates to absmin / absmax type. Was that what that func really does?

Then I merely deleted the default walls and floors and player starts from the rest of the map so only the telepoeter remains. It did put (1) light entity at its very top I noticed, so I did a compile, and renamed it to the B_EXPLOB.bsp model loaded up e3m1 in deathmatch to take a peek at it. It was not lit very well, and the center texture had: trigger on it and was not the teleporter tex. I reopened it and was able to change that texture to the right one, and added lights that were present in the original B_EXPLOB file from RAW text, just as an experiment, and now the lights are better, and while the teleporter now has the right texture, it somehow enlarged that center area so that its not inside the rest of the model's X coordinates...so its sticking out maybe 5 units or so if you face the teleporter. I also could not figure out how to move / reposition the light ? I figured drag and drop, but its not letting me.

Also, I noticed the wad its using when I was looking at RAW text, its pointing to a wad in the Jackhammer dir. I'm guessing because these textures were part of e1m3's data, would I have to make sure they are all in a 'universal' wad file of sorts if I wanted to be able to use them in other maps ? I suppose its just merely copying the jackhammer wad and putting it in the local ID1 folder?
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Re: Create .bsp models from within maps

Postby Cobalt » Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:32 pm

Ok - hrm. I tried making the center texture 'hollow' to fix the problem but it didnt work. Meanwhile I played around with some textures ....pretty interesting possibiities:

Image
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Re: Create .bsp models from within maps

Postby Dr. Shadowborg » Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:38 pm

mankrip wrote:External models does get proper collision, as long as their entities are set to SOLID_BSP.


Cool, thats good to know then, always thought that only baked into the map brushes allowed for proper collision. :)

Cobalt wrote:Ok, nice !

I was able to group them, then did copy into a new map like Scarecrow said earlier. I did : 'move to world' figuring thats what converts the absolute brush coordinates to absmin / absmax type. Was that what that func really does?


Move to world should change a brush bound to an entity back into a regular brush. If you want to center it at '0 0 0', move it to '0 0 0'. (program should give you coords in the three mapping views, also make sure you do your offsets right, so that it sits properly ingame)

Cobalt wrote:Then I merely deleted the default walls and floors and player starts from the rest of the map so only the telepoeter remains. It did put (1) light entity at its very top I noticed, so I did a compile, and renamed it to the B_EXPLOB.bsp model loaded up e3m1 in deathmatch to take a peek at it. It was not lit very well, and the center texture had: trigger on it and was not the teleporter tex. I reopened it and was able to change that texture to the right one, and added lights that were present in the original B_EXPLOB file from RAW text, just as an experiment, and now the lights are better, and while the teleporter now has the right texture, it somehow enlarged that center area so that its not inside the rest of the model's X coordinates...so its sticking out maybe 5 units or so if you face the teleporter. I also could not figure out how to move / reposition the light ? I figured drag and drop, but its not letting me.

Also, I noticed the wad its using when I was looking at RAW text, its pointing to a wad in the Jackhammer dir. I'm guessing because these textures were part of e1m3's data, would I have to make sure they are all in a 'universal' wad file of sorts if I wanted to be able to use them in other maps ? I suppose its just merely copying the jackhammer wad and putting it in the local ID1 folder?


Thats the trigger_teleport brush. You can safely delete that brush. (there should be a teleport field brush hidden beneath that, which is what you would normally see ingame, as trigger_teleport is invisible)

You do need to place lights around your brush to get proper lighting. Another possiblity would be to try using worldspawn's minlight, but that might look ugly...

You may have to scale /shift to fit the brush with your texture. There should be a texture application tool along the side toolbar, just turn that mode on, select the face with the improperly scaled / shifted face (3dview), and use the controls in the dialog to scale to fit, etc.

Moving the light entity should be as simple as selecting the entity, then dragging it to where you want it. You might have to do it in the gridviews though, can't remember if the 3dmode lets you move stuff.

Q1BSP bakes the textures into the .bsp file at compile time, so you shouldn't need to include the texture wad. (unlike q2bsp and q3bsp, which store textures separately from the .bsp)
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Re: Create .bsp models from within maps

Postby Cobalt » Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:22 pm

Ok then what happened was I exported the teleport brush with the group, so thats probably why its sticking out matching the dimensions of the trigger teleport.

I tried getting the grid back but couldnt. Ill start over again I guess.

Oh and I like Jackhammer alot so I donated to it. Also I noticed if you load a .map BSP item fresh into Jackhammer it causes a crash .... they have the error dialogue that comes up still written in english, but I was able to send a crash report via email. I also sent a seperate email explaining it wont load the .map items individually. Every item bsp map I loaded crashes it, unless I think for the model I just made , and it may be because there is a jackhammer ref file for it?


Dr. Shadowborg wrote:Thats the trigger_teleport brush. You can safely delete that brush. (there should be a teleport field brush hidden beneath that, which is what you would normally see ingame, as trigger_teleport is invisible)

You do need to place lights around your brush to get proper lighting. Another possiblity would be to try using worldspawn's minlight, but that might look ugly...

You may have to scale /shift to fit the brush with your texture. There should be a texture application tool along the side toolbar, just turn that mode on, select the face with the improperly scaled / shifted face (3dview), and use the controls in the dialog to scale to fit, etc.

Moving the light entity should be as simple as selecting the entity, then dragging it to where you want it. You might have to do it in the gridviews though, can't remember if the 3dmode lets you move stuff.

Q1BSP bakes the textures into the .bsp file at compile time, so you shouldn't need to include the texture wad. (unlike q2bsp and q3bsp, which store textures separately from the .bsp)
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Re: Create .bsp models from within maps

Postby Dr. Shadowborg » Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:13 pm

Cobalt wrote:Ok then what happened was I exported the teleport brush with the group, so thats probably why its sticking out matching the dimensions of the trigger teleport.

I tried getting the grid back but couldnt. Ill start over again I guess.

Oh and I like Jackhammer alot so I donated to it. Also I noticed if you load a .map BSP item fresh into Jackhammer it causes a crash .... they have the error dialogue that comes up still written in english, but I was able to send a crash report via email. I also sent a seperate email explaining it wont load the .map items individually. Every item bsp map I loaded crashes it, unless I think for the model I just made , and it may be because there is a jackhammer ref file for it?


Looks to me like outdated .map file formats. Those q1 map sources are ooooold. Just open them up in something like quark or gtkradiant (1.5) then resave them. They'll load just fine in jackhammer after that.
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Re: Create .bsp models from within maps

Postby Cobalt » Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:46 pm

Nope so far nothing from Quark, Trenchbroom or any other likes those .map files that are item specific. The levels themselves load fine, so I am guessing the format is ok, just none of the authors thought anyone would be modeling bsp type items in them...

I suspect its because the items brush coordinates are in mins/max format and its expecting to see absolute values. Or I suppse I could try starting a new map with the default room, then add in the item, but I dont suppose it would be a .map type item, rtather a bsp and cant edit them anyhow.

UPDATE:

I did get an answer on the Quark Forums
http://quark.sourceforge.net/forums/ind ... pic=1063.0

After I followed that bracket grouping format
So I guess all the item bsp's in Romeros release need to be updated ... ?


Dr. Shadowborg wrote:Looks to me like outdated .map file formats. Those q1 map sources are ooooold. Just open them up in something like quark or gtkradiant (1.5) then resave them. They'll load just fine in jackhammer after that.
Last edited by Cobalt on Sun Oct 26, 2014 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Create .bsp models from within maps

Postby Dr. Shadowborg » Sun Oct 26, 2014 11:26 pm

Hrm, well loading the item box .maps in GTKRadiant 1.5 then resaving worked for me.

You could just remake the items fairly easy though. Just make the boxes as many qu wide / high as the textures are pixels, and you're done.

Or you could wait till tomorrow and I could convert them for you.
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Re: Create .bsp models from within maps

Postby Cobalt » Sun Oct 26, 2014 11:40 pm

Hrm. I updated my above post....guy on Quark forums seems to know the right format to be made in text editor so any map editor will accept.
I just confirmed that after the conversion, they so far seem to load ok now. Sure, I can wait till tomorrow... :D Its only 5 hours away anyhow...


Dr. Shadowborg wrote:Hrm, well loading the item box .maps in GTKRadiant 1.5 then resaving worked for me.

You could just remake the items fairly easy though. Just make the boxes as many qu wide / high as the textures are pixels, and you're done.

Or you could wait till tomorrow and I could convert them for you.
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Re: Create .bsp models from within maps

Postby Dr. Shadowborg » Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:44 pm

Here you go:

http://fbe.am/uKd

Was a bit bigger of a pain that I'd originally thought it would be. Had to add entity "worldspawn" and a pointer to wadfile. Anyway, that's all of the non-level item type .map files, they should load just fine in jackhammer now.
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Re: Create .bsp models from within maps

Postby mankrip » Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:43 am

Dr. Shadowborg wrote:
Cobalt wrote:I do see the textures of the map when doing that, but the items - ents are colored cubes.

When I browse to add .wad or pak, the drop down is only allowing the HL/other type textures be seen/ selected. Its not showing the option for the .wad / pak as I once saw it last night. Not sure what happened.

I did notice today that I had Worldcraft already installed to another drive different than what I installed to last night. Maybe there is a conflict, so I will try starting over?


Items and ents that aren't attached to things like func_door *should* look like colored cubes in Worldcraft 3.3. Also, WC33 only supports hlwads, thus you need a converter program and use a compiling util like tyrutils.

You should try jackhammer, has pretty much all the important features from WC33, but works much nicer, and supports Quake / Quake2.

http://jackhammer.hlfx.ru/en/main.html

IIRC, you can even have it display .mdls for the entities.

Note however, that I still recommend replacing the bsp compile utils that come with it with something decent like tyrutils / BJP.

Thanks for the tip. Its texture extraction tool also works much better than the one in Worldcraft.
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Re: Create .bsp models from within maps

Postby Cobalt » Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:22 am

Yep seems to work so far....nice, thanks.

For some reason you cant move the lights in the camera view....but you can select them there, and find them in the other view windows and move them. I guess it illustrates their position better anyway.

Heres my latest creation -

Image

Changelevel Teleporter from e1m7 but with blue stone perimiter. Hard to make out the blue stone unless I add more light to the outer area. Its odd because I thought lightmaps from the rest of the map would sort of pick up on any entity or surface ...but I guess since its a BSP model you have to light it seperate.

I also found a texture wad of starfield type skies and threw one in place of the teleporter, but it didnt seem to "bake" it into the .map, and it was putting the regular ID type sky textures in there and they were solid. I thought maybe move that wad to the local ID1 folder but it made no difference so I went back to the standard teleporter tex. Once I did that, the center was non solid, even though the entire model is spawning as SOLID_BSP. I guess the ending automaticly detects that texture and renders it non solid?

Oh and if you look closely there are 'spikes' or portrusions at the 4 corners inside the circle. I didnt see a way to unselect them in the editor and I thought they were pieces only visible from the back, but now I see they are part of a brush area ...?

Here is its .map file if anyone wants to take a peek: http://pastie.org/9680116

Dr. Shadowborg wrote:Here you go:
http://fbe.am/uKd
Was a bit bigger of a pain that I'd originally thought it would be. Had to add entity "worldspawn" and a pointer to wadfile. Anyway, that's all of the non-level item type .map files, they should load just fine in jackhammer now.
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Re: Create .bsp models from within maps

Postby mankrip » Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:54 am

WinQuake can only use 1 sky texture per level, and this includes the sky surfaces in any external BSP entities. I've fixed that in my engine, but I didn't know the hardware-accelerated ones also had this bug.

Yes, any brushes with turbulent surfaces (water, slime, lava, portals) are compiled as a non-solid part of the BSP file. Vanilla engines ignores this on BSP entities and treats them as solid, but LordHavoc fixed that in DarkPlaces.

The vanilla engines were clearly coded with the mindset that Id Software would never make BSP entities with liquid brushes.
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