Hey gb, thanks for the awesome info, and screenshots(!)
goldenboy wrote:I thought the reason for my messed up skins dramas was because Quakeshop's conversion from pcx->RGB "changes something" ( 'corrupts the Quake palette numbering system' ?) and no matter what I've tried ( using different quake palettes when converting back to indexed color, importing the psd in Paint Shop pro (and GIMP, and outputting a pcx, etc etc) all I get is messed up colors.
GIMP will in any case not "change something" when converting an indexed image to RGB.
Cool. I'm still confused as to why I can't 'convert' these RGB images (which use ONLY colours I picked from other quake images with the eye dropper) to be Quake compatible. If I don't figure it out, I'll have to (sadly) begin drawing everything again using GIMP, just need to confirm first that "there is no other way". Whilst rftming, I regularly come across people 'converting' things to the Quake pallette eg the
Nominion Squid, where DrDire says shows the squid (presumably not Quake compatible, and then says "here it is with the quake palette". Why can't I take my skins and make them "Quake compatible"?
goldenboy wrote:Also, apparently you want to create low-res textures (ie indexed) - this got me a little confused because you mentioned high res textures.
Well the initial problem was the "messed up skins", but in trying to resolve it, I realised:
a> I was just guessing, and had no idea
how the pros do it, so why (clumsily) reinvent the wheel (especially when ive already hit a stumbling block)
b> I saw that high resolution head on the ground, and wondered "if skins HAVE to look 'rough and low res' because of quake 'limited palette', then how can that face look so sharp and detailed? [EDIT: it's because I was using fte, which can display images from mdls with skins which are higher res, and can bypass the Quake palette limitations. The high-res-head in question is not displayed in EZquake]
So I split the question into two threads 'please help me fix my skins, and 'how do the pros make these high res textures'
If there's a way to make skins which look as high res as the headless mdl, then that clearly would be the way to go, especially as everything looks so sharp in FTE, except for the skins, which look fuzzy and lo-res.
goldenboy wrote: What I told you above regards the creation of high resolution RGB textures, not indexed textures. Still, even if you want to convert your skin to indexed eventually, you do not need to use only colours from your target palette during painting. The conversion will take care of the colours.
I described in your other thread (
http://forums.inside3d.com/viewtopic.ph ... c30#p48657 how you can import the palette from an indexed image with GIMP, and how you can convert an RGB image to indexed using that same palette. This process works just fine for me.
Don't import the PSD into GIMP, export a BMP from PS and load that into GIMP to bypass any potential issues with GIMP and PSD format.
Well I've tried this over and over and over with every setting I can find, and the least 'messed up' skins were done with the following procedure (sorry for the perhaps gratuitous detail, but I'm worried that there's something really dumb I've missed):
Firstly here's what the skin SHOULD look like:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/60268498@N ... hotostream
1. Open the psd in Photoshop
2. Save as BMP, Windows, 16 bit (tried 24 bit)
3. Open BMP in GIMP
4. Image->Mode->indexed
5. At 'Indexed Color conversion' dialogue box, select custom, and select the palette I made earlier (as per your instructions)
6. Untick 'Remove unused colors from colormap'
7. Click 'convert'. Note: the image still looks good /normal at this stage.
8. File->export. Then select Zsoft PCX Image.
This produced a skin which looked ok, still messed up, but 'getting there'. Here's the Blue version:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/60268498@N ... hotostream
And here's the Red version:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/60268498@N ... otostream/
The (red) blood looks ok, the vomit (which is supposed to be green) has become white, I think the yellow on the face has somehow become a 'team color'. Btw the red spots on the body are normal (meant to be diseased open sores), and the 'D' on the chest was my ID/marker, way of ensuring that the client was indeed loading up the right model. Not sure where to go from here.
goldenboy wrote: So your issue is that the conversion to indexed mode *slightly* changes the colours of your image?
No, it's the messed up skins, as per my screenshots.
goldenboy wrote:
I'm not sure any of this fixes the issue with the really screwed colours you seem to have after exporting. Pretty sure that's a result of using the wrong palette when indexing (or an engine bug; double check your skins in a known good engine such as DP).
Edit: The best and simplest fix for all your problems is not to use indexed images. Why can't you just use JPG or TGA format for your skins?
[/quote]
I only used indexed images because that's what the original skin exported as (from QME). I dont understand if Ive been so careful to keep the original format and only use colours Ive copied from existing valid working quake skins, then why are my skins so 'unsalvagable'?
There seem to be two bits of (to my newbie understanding) contradictory information:
1. If you convert a valid Quake skin to the wrong format (eg Photoshops RGB) you mess up the 'indexing' of the image's palette, and the image becomes non-Quake compatible, permanently.
2. You can make a skin/texture in any format, and then later 'convert it' to use the quake palette.
:?
Thanks again for the screenshots, much appreciated!