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THEY ALL SUCK

Discuss the creation of various model formats for Quake engines, and related matters to modeling.

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THEY ALL SUCK

Postby lth » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:47 pm

Seriously, what 3d editor do you guys use? I've spent an infuriating afternoon trying to make a super-lo-poly model (a Swiss chalet if you must know, <20 tris) for my new game and I'm on the verge of resorting to qMe. This can't be right.

* Sketchup: how the hell do I stop polygons interacting with other objects and making scaling them infuriating?
* Blender: just WTF. How do I make a face and then add back-sides to it? (For the pointy roof)
* Milkshape: least bad so far -- but how can I get my vertices to "snap to grid" instead of the translation itself being snapped? I can't line my points up anymore!
* Truespace: Can't figure out how to create a face or even a vertex. But at least you can manually edit the locations of points.
* Hexagon: can't appear to exactly specify the locations of points and "snapping" only works for a few things.

Essentially I just want something like qMe but less crap (or even just exactly the same but with undo and the ability to save to .x): individual precision vertex editor, the ability to add backfaces, and a simple skinning tool. Is that so hard or am I just too stupid to be allowed near a 3d model editor?
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Re: THEY ALL SUCK

Postby goldenboy » Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:34 pm

Blender all the way.

Add backsides to a face?

Add -> Mesh -> Plane, and perhaps Faces -> Solidify? Otherwise Extrude.
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Re: THEY ALL SUCK

Postby leileilol » Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:25 am

lth wrote:* Blender: just WTF. How do I make a face and then add back-sides to it? (For the pointy roof)

Duplicate the selected face, then Flip Normals. Make sure you don't weld its vetrices afterward. Make sure you turn off "Double sided" so you can see front sides better (and not mistaking back sides for fronts).

Also, the snapping tool's that little magnet button

lth wrote:* Milkshape: least bad so far

Very funny
i should not be here
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Re: THEY ALL SUCK

Postby gnounc » Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:51 am

blender.

leileis the one to ask, but I didnt understand his answer.

so and as gb said extrude or solidify.
i believe solidify is now a modifier, so extrude.

knowing the basic ten or so hotkeys will take away much of that frustration.

right click is select.
g is to grab and move
s is to scale
r is to rotate
e to extrude (as a beginner, this is your new best friend)
x is to delete
and tab is to change between modes (namely select object and select vertices...very important to be mindful of this)

iirc ctrl r is add edgeloop..your other best friend

you can hit x y or z to constrain to that angleson any operation

ctrl rmb to lasso select, b to box select and i think c to paint select.

with emulate 3 button mouse on, alt shift rmb and drag to pan
ctrl rmb to rotate around an object

had someone laid those down for me the first time i wouldnt have wanted to break things...so i hope
this helps somebody.
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Re: THEY ALL SUCK

Postby taniwha » Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:26 am

gnounc: lasso is ctrl-lmb, not rmb, but otherwise, great survival guide. However, one important one is missing: f (create edge (2 verts selected) or face (3+verts)).

And then, probably the most important survival tip for blender: #blender @ irc.freenode.net
Leave others their otherness.
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Re: THEY ALL SUCK

Postby goldenboy » Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:19 pm

It really depends what you mean by adding a backface to a face.

Leilei's way will create another face in the same place with an inverted normal.

Solidify (this is now a modifier? in 2.63, it's still a menu option) or extrude will create another face *and* extra faces that connect it to the first (turns it into a threedimensional object).

And to add another great tool to the list: Loop Cut - Ctrl-R. Mouse wheel changes the number of loops.

G (grab) and S (Scale) can move things around locked to an axis; pretty useful. G Z will lock movement to the Z axis, G Shift Z locks it to X and Y axes.

Also snapping the cursor to various places / snapping objects to the cursor can be pretty useful.

Ctrl-Z, Ctrl-Y to undo and redo.

Number pad 1, 3 and 7 for front/side/top views; number pad 5 toggles orthographic / perspective view.

Middle mouse button in 3D viewport rotates the view; Shift-MMB just scrolls the view in 2 dimensions. Shift-D duplicates. Strg-Tab allows you to switch edge/face/vertex mode. Ctrl-E/F/V brings up the edge/face/vertex menus. X deletes stuff. A selects/deselects all.
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Re: THEY ALL SUCK

Postby lth » Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:11 am

Thank you everyone, I've persisted with Blender simply by dint of googling every single thing I want to do because it seems to work entirely through unmarked shortcuts. I'm making progress at least.
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Re: THEY ALL SUCK

Postby taniwha » Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:00 am

The good news is using blender is like riding a bike: once you learn how... :) Also, many of the shortcuts you learn when editing a mesh are useful when editing animation curves or compositor/material nodes.
Leave others their otherness.
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Re: THEY ALL SUCK

Postby goldenboy » Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:50 pm

The thing about the unmarked shortcuts is true... Blender seems to be one of those RTFM type programs. I forget Blender shortcuts all the time and also have to use Google to help me remember them. :?
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Re: THEY ALL SUCK

Postby taniwha » Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:56 pm

If you keep forgetting them, then you don't use them enough :) The ones I used a lot are in my muscle memory :)
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Re: THEY ALL SUCK

Postby frag.machine » Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:32 pm

I am sure all suggestions on this thread are really good, but IMO the problem with current 3d modelling tools is that they require a lot of time to learn the basics, let alone master.
As goldenboy said, Blender is powerful but far from "friendly", even to intermediate level artists, let alone n00bs like me. And most vertex based modelling tools from the Quake era were pretty straight to use.
I know FrikaC made a cgi-bin version of the quakec interpreter once and wrote part of his website in QuakeC :) (LordHavoc)
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Re: THEY ALL SUCK

Postby goldenboy » Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:52 pm

To be fair, I find QME a lot more horrible than Blender. The latter at least has documentation available.
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Re: THEY ALL SUCK

Postby gnounc » Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:55 am

adding a big comfy colorful side toolbar like maya and 3ds have would go a long way.
if theres not already a plugin for that, there damn well should be.
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Re: THEY ALL SUCK

Postby ceriux » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:26 pm

i like max, iv just found that its best you just find a tool you're comfortable with if you're just a hobbist
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