What's The Difference?

Discuss the creation of various model formats for Quake engines, and related matters to modeling.
Junrall
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Post by Junrall »

r00k wrote: Is it feasible to use a non animated BSP model as a player model, an airplane? Does this mean more accurate collision hits?
Haha, I was kinda thinking about this last night. Instead cycling through a bunch of palyer model frames how about cycling through several player bsp models... egads! Wouldn't this create some havoc! Probably with network play.
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Sajt
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Post by Sajt »

Junrall wrote:I'm sure it's my lack of knowledge in the mdl and bsp area. It just seams that when I bounce a bsp around it tends to disappear into the walls whereas any other mdl bounces off of walls just fine.

Also, the ammo box's self.origin is set at one of it's corners rather than at the very center... like a mdl model would be. This makes the ammo box look weird when it is rotating and bouncing off of walls
I'm pretty sure the solution is just to recreate the BSP models, properly centred.
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Junrall
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Post by Junrall »

Sajt wrote:I'm pretty sure the solution is just to recreate the BSP models, properly centred.
After reading your comment an old dusty memory surfaced... when a bsp is created to be a model isn't it's origin equal to 0, 0 (that's 0, 0 within a map editor not Quake) If so, then it should be easy as just making sure that 0, 0 is at the center of the bsp when it is created. Right?
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Sajt
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Post by Sajt »

Indeed, that would do the trick. It's the same as MDLs, of course (you can also create an "off-centre" MDL which would rotate lop-sidedly).
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Teiman
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Post by Teiman »

Junrall wrote:
r00k wrote: Is it feasible to use a non animated BSP model as a player model, an airplane? Does this mean more accurate collision hits?
Haha, I was kinda thinking about this last night. Instead cycling through a bunch of palyer model frames how about cycling through several player bsp models... egads! Wouldn't this create some havoc! Probably with network play.
I .... expect problems.. with stuff like the MOVETYPE of the player, or just pure some expectations withing the engine. But Is a simple experiment, like, setting the player model to a bbox.
Spike
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Post by Spike »

server doesn't care about the model until the solid=SOLID_BSP. setmodel also sets the size, and that will differ, but that's not an engine bug... that's an engine feature. :)
The client doesn't care for the most part, but bear in mind that pitch angles differ (multiply by -1). And SW rendering cares too, at least when things rotate.

The ammo boxes are all off-center. Yes. It doesn't have to be this way though. Nothing is centered automatically.

You can freely switch bsp with mdl and vice versa, so long as SOLID_BSP items always have a bsp model.
But yeah, you can't animate bsp models. Changing the frame changes to alternate textures instead. So its not practical, but it can work. But yeah, you'll need to fix up the pitch angle.
Wazat
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Post by Wazat »

Is it feasible to use a non animated BSP model as a player model, an airplane? Does this mean more accurate collision hits?
Yes, it will make that bsp model collide very accurately (using the bsp dimensions instead of a bounding box) with things that are, say, solid_bbox and solid_slidebox. The problem is that solid_bsp objects may not collide with other bsp objects, like other players and the world. I'm not sure. That depends on whether you must use MOVETYPE_PUSH.

I know that solid_bsp and movetype_push are required together (engine crashes if you have one and not the other) in vanilla quake. Movetype_push ignores bsp objects by definition, so doors, platforms and walls etc don't ever interact with each other. I believe, however, that newer engines have decoupled solid_bsp and movetype_push, so maybe you could have a solid_bsp player with a bsp model that interacts with the world properly, and still gives you the dimensions of the bsp model instead of a bounding box (which is the whole point of doing it).

If someone tests this (or has tested it), let us know.
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