What would happen if...

[Urre]

...we all teamed up and made an über-mod, everyone chipping in whereever they can, and doing what they're best at?

[Canadian*Sniper]

stealthspacefrikquake?

[MauveBib]

What would happen is that chunks of a mod would get done, people would argue and it'd all fall apart.

The nearest I've seen to something like that in Quake in recent years is Nexuiz, it's the only mod/game I can think of that was developed by a very large number of people.

[Urre]

Nexuiz probably works because it is so simple, straightforward and generally un-original. Anyone who codes or creates content for Nexuiz basicly knows what needs to be done without any form of leadership. You can add small cool features, or fix bugs, and as the game itself is so simple yet scalable, it can't go very wrong. Except be somewhat boring, but that's a separate issue.

[Supa]

and doing what they're best at?

You mean procrastinate? :)

If it means anything I'd like to help out in a project like this, at least.

[Urre]

/me imagines a sort of code-wiki, a project with a playable base that just keeps growing

The problem with something like that it needs to be abstract enough that almost anyones ideas fit. Which I guess basicly sums up to some sorta A-life thing, like Second Life maybe. Or not.

[frag.machine]

And what if, instead of only a unique, limiting idea, we had a small set of categories in a wiki-style site ? Let's say, there would be a RPG-Style mod here, a RTS-style TC there, in that corner a top-view combat mod, a persistent-status-DM-mod-with-new-weapons over there (only naming a few to illustrate, the list does not need to end here)... I believe most of the project ideas could be roughly classified under one of these maybe dozen of categories.

[Urre]

Not sure I follow, that sounds to me more like some form of mod database (wonder where I've heard that before), rather than a collaborative project. And like I said, it'd need to be abstract to suit all tastes. But then again, not everyone likes abstract things so I dunno... But I'm getting all weird and fuzzy inside, thinking about this. Imagine that there's this wiki-like site, which sorta functions like an IDE for the code, you can go in and edit things, and there's a button to download the code, and you could just compile it on your local computer and get it running. For content, there could be a separate ftp sort of upload site, and a script which packs it together to a pk3 on demand so you can download it, and use the new content in the code. I mean, how awesome isn't that! And with a wiki, you can even revert changes and so if something breaks fatally.

[LordHavoc]

I think the trick is to find someone to make a design document for a mod that everyone on inside3d.com would want to work on, with enough for everyone to do.

[leileilol]

token2

[Wazat]

I remember token quake. That does seem to be what we're going for. It was kind of the ideal community project. Each ability or penalty has a cost/bonus, so everything can be balanced by the community, and everyone can contribute something cool.

Yesterday when I started reading the thread, here's what came to mind:

1) I didn't remember token quake right off (which is an even better example of a cooperation-worthy project), but I did remember the project where everyone was going to build their own character (there would be a Wazat character class, a FrikaC, a Dr. Shadowborg, basically everyone from the forum/community). Each character would have different attributes, such as bonus health/defense/attack, special weapons, and a special ability. The project died due to almost no one getting involved.

2) The idea that struck me while reading the thread was a Rune mod. The player can pick up runes while playing and attach them to either his weapon or his body. He can attach 1 rune to his body, and 1 rune to each weapon. Runes are found throughout the game (single player or multiplayer), and the player has two impulses to pick up a rune for his current weapon, or pick up one to attach to his body (picking up a rune throws away the current one attached). This means the player can have up to 9 runes: 1 for each weapon, and 1 on his body. With the body equipped and 1 rune on the weapon, he can have up to 2 runes active at once.

Runes applied to a weapon work at full strength, but only affect that weapon (or affect the player while the weapon is equipped). Runes applied to the body have a global effect, but operate at a reduced strength (less powerful, or less chance of activating if they are random, etc).

Basically everyone would get to program their own rune idea into the mod, and the code would be in SVN on sourceforge or something so everyone could stay updated and current, and resolving conflicts would be easy.

Some rune ideas:

Rage: +50% attack (only +20% when equipped on body)

Stone: +50% defense (+20% body)

Speed: +25% attack speed (+10% on body)

Haste: Each attack has a 5% chance of Hasting the player, which gives him 10 seconds of +100% attack speed (even if he switches weapons). (Only +50% attack speed on body).

Vampire: Each attack drains a random % of the damage done as health. The random number is Floor(randNum(0, damage/5)), so up to 1/5th the health can be drained. However, the player's health drops by 1 per second while equipped. (When equipped on body, hp drops by 1 per 2 seconds, and you only heal up to damage/10 per attack).

Cold: Each attack has a chance of slowing the damaged enemy, causing them to move and attack at half speed. The chance of slowing depends on the damage dealt vs the enemy's max health. (On body halves the chance of activating).

Regeneration: You gain 1 hit point per second. (On body gains 1 hit point per 3 seconds).

Revenge: The lower your health, the more damage you deal. I.E. if you are at 50% health, you deal +50% damage. If you are at 10% health, you deal +90% damage. (on body halves the bonus)

Fire and Ice: Each attack sets the target on fire, dealing bonus damage over time. The bonus damage depends on the damage dealt with the attack. Continuing to attack the target makes the flame hotter and hotter, adding more to the bonus damage that will be dealt before the flames go out. Bonus damage is 10% of attack damage (5% on body).
Attacks also have a chance of freezing an enemy's legs, so they cannot move (but can attack). Chance depends on attack damage vs target's max health (on body is half chance).

Plentiful: Weapon uses 50% less ammo (on body all weapons use 25% less ammo).

--

Thoughts?

[Dr. Shadowborg]

1) I didn't remember token quake right off (which is an even better example of a cooperation-worthy project), but I did remember the project where everyone was going to build their own character (there would be a Wazat character class, a FrikaC, a Dr. Shadowborg, basically everyone from the forum/community). Each character would have different attributes, such as bonus health/defense/attack, special weapons, and a special ability. The project died due to almost no one getting involved.

It's not totally dead though. The spirit behind it still lives on in my current project. (Although in a much simpler, and less character plentiful state...)

You can find the beta of it here: (No characters as yet though...)
http://forums.inside3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=967

p1mpage aside, what Wazat outlined sounds good. Then again, token2 sounds good too. (/me coughs in FrikaC's general direction while pointing at above link and whispering "weapons and items ripe for the stealing")

[LordHavoc]

Runes applied to a weapon work at full strength, but only affect that weapon (or affect the player while the weapon is equipped). Runes applied to the body have a global effect, but operate at a reduced strength (less powerful, or less chance of activating if they are random, etc).

I disagree - they should all be full strength, no matter where they're placed, the fact you can only have two at once is enough of a restriction.

What should happen if someone puts the same rune on both though?

We could have special behaviors for specific rune combinations (every rune with itself having slightly different balancing than simply adding the two effects together, and certain combinations of runes might be coded specially).

However runes are by their very nature not much of a 'plugin' system, there are really two parts to such code - the core has to have the functionality (like adding a bunch of fields for damage multipliers and other effects, and then the runes simply modify these values - so one function would reset these fields to defaults and then call the relevant rune functions to apply their modifications).

We ought to have plugin items in general, not just runes - new weapons, new armor types, new powerups, new kinds of health pack (like maybe one you can carry and activate later)...

However this all begs the question "Is it fun?", and it doesn't take all this to make a fun mod, as proven by Rocket Arena.

So what's the goal?

Basically everyone would get to program their own rune idea into the mod, and the code would be in SVN on sourceforge or something so everyone could stay updated and current, and resolving conflicts would be easy.

I recommend using an SVN like this yes, but also we would want to keep a server running all the time so people can play the latest version together

[frag.machine]

@Wazat: I like your Rune mod idea. Looks like something simple enough to a lot of people collaborate with a good degree of freedom. Some questions about it:
a) what this mod would support ? sp ? dm ? coop ? ctf ?
b) would it require a specific engine or could it run in vanilla GLQuake ?
(I am asking because I can imagine things like a shrunking rune that could convert weapon damage into target size reduction to the point where you could squish your opponent like a bug, but that either would require some engine support or use customized models)

Actually, thinking about, this really resembles the ye olde Total Destruction II. On this mod every time you spawn you get a randomic ability/magic power (like rechargeable 10-second quad, pentagram or damage mirror, or the ability to spawn a 600-health pet dog) and during the gameplay you can grab runes (like the ones in TWCTF) and/or special weapons (pipebombs, chainguns, explosive shotguns, etc). Also, you get normal weapons upgrades every time you get a weapon you already have. I had lots of fun playing that...

[goblinoid]

Can I suggest something?

Have you ever heard about Debian? Well, for those who don't know, Debian is a linux distribution that is developed by the community. I don't know how exactly it works, but basically, every developer is responsible by a piece of code (a package), he or she has to update this package, fix bugs, implement stuff, well, do the things that coders do. There is an email list for every package where people can report bugs and discuss the development. Then there is a team that put all these pieces of code together, test everyone, and, if everything works as expected, release the distribution.

Well, I know nothing about QuakeC, but I think this method suits well the development of a mod because we can brake the code in several pieces. So, for example, somebody will code the shotgun, while another one will do the weapon model and a third one will do the weapon sound. This way we can use everyone talents and the development won't fail because of lack of skills or time, if someone leaves the project, another person can continue the work. After all, as long as there is a community interested in it, the game will survive.

So, if you chose to work this way, I'll suggest that the first things to do are: find the people who will organize the development, put the code together and release the game. And make a concept. People must know in what they are working so they can focus on it and don't waste time in useless things. Also, you don't have to use all the ideas on a single mod .