Quake map source release

[CocoT]

Hello everyone. I hope you're doing well
Erm, I was just wondering... Does the release of the map source mean that original Q1 maps are now freely distributable (is that a word?)?

[Baker]

Hello everyone. I hope you're doing well
Erm, I was just wondering... Does the release of the map source mean that original Q1 maps are now freely distributable (is that a word?)?

The Quake original maps aren't freely distributable, the ID textures are not GPL'd.

(right?)

[Entar]

If I understand things correctly, the .map files for the original maps are freely distributable (GPL), but the textures and the .bsp's are not.

[CocoT]

Mmm... I see
So the original bsp's wouldn't be distribuable even if all textures had been changed, right?

[leileilol]

you got it.

[CocoT]

Alrighty! Thanks for the info!

[r00k]

So lets say we fix something on dm3.map for example and keep the lightmaps intact but use a solid color generic texture but preserve all the texture name tags so the 24bit replacements will still work then recompile it, can one re-distibute that bsp?

[Entar]

Nope. You're still using id software textures that are included in the .bsp, which would show if you didn't have 24bit replacements handy - you'd have to get a new .wad to work from, then keep the texture names the same in that, then compile from the GPL'd .map files.

[Sajt]

You can make some adjustments to the .map, and use all your own textures, then compile it and release the BSP. You can even sell the BSP. Just as long as you package the changed .map with it.

Rook, you should be able to do that. Or you could make a utility and distribute it with your map, that you run in the maps folder, which extracts the textures from a known legal installation of Quake and inserts them in your BSP. I can't remember who did it but it has been done before and it's possibe

[scar3crow]

Everything is possibe through Sat.

[leileilol]

Why not start on a name matching, GPL licensed from-scratch Quake texture wad that's not so hi-res? Some of Open Quartz's textures could be useful for it.

There's only 530+ textures though :\

[CocoT]

Okay, there is something a bit bizarre to me (which will probably make total sense to people who know more about the GPL than I do, so I apologize in advance for sounding stupid)...

Does that mean that it is okay to bundle a custom map possibly making use of the original textures with a mod, but it would probably not be okay to bundle the exact same map in a stand-alone game that would be using textures from a retexturing project because that custom bsp has original textures in it?

In the same manner, isn't it weird that I could bundle with my mod a player.mdl with new skins but I couldn't use the exact same player.mdl with a stand-alone game?

I mean, I see how, clearly, in the case of the mod, you still need the full game to be able to play it, but still... It seems clear that anyone using a engine like DP, a texture pack and media from a remodelling project and from couple of mods out there could without pain build a working (multiplayer and, almost as easily, single-player) Quake1. I mean... I wonder how legal/illegal it is to offer some stupid "base" to people and tell them that, somehow, they could use a couple of separate downloads if they want to be able to enjoy a full game. Not that I would desire to sink that low or that I somehow want to find ways to "cheat" the system (I think ID has been nice enough to the modding community)... but I'd be interested in knowing what's allowed and what's not

[Sajt]

Technically, it's illegal for people to release maps including original id textures, whether for a mod or a standalone project. In the same way it's illegal to include any sort of modified/unmodified player.mdl in a mod or standalone project.

But id doesn't do anything, partly because it's their fault for having textures stored in the bsp and mdls.

They won't even notice you if you do something like this in a mod, like thousands of people have been doing for the last ten years. You're redistributing their textures and models, but since it's still a Quake mod, id doesn't care. But if you include them in a standalone project, it's no more technically illegal, but they will probably tell you to stop. Especially if you're,say, including Quake models in a non-Quake-based project or something like that.

[CocoT]

I see
Fine line between what's tolerated and what's actually legal, it seems. Thanks for answering this, Sajt!