Report: Troubled Doom 4 being retargeted for next-generation

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frag.machine
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Report: Troubled Doom 4 being retargeted for next-generation

Post by frag.machine »

I know FrikaC made a cgi-bin version of the quakec interpreter once and wrote part of his website in QuakeC :) (LordHavoc)
leileilol
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Re: Report: Troubled Doom 4 being retargeted for next-genera

Post by leileilol »

Why is there only Kotaku's article to go with in all of these reports? I'm grain of salting it, especially with so many "a source" in that article which can lead to widespread misinformation.

but yeah my original reaction is completely justified if that is true. Doom4 will be a hard sell regardless of how many "FROM THE CREATORS OF THE FPS GENRE AND SKYRIM" ads are printed about it in GameInformer. And by "affecitng culture" that means "add arrow to the knee" right?

Remember that most of Bethesda's success with their RPGs is from the hype that have been for the most part misleading (Oblivion's totally huge and open environment, Skyrim's "new" engine, we're game of the year winner, all on XBOX 360 etc), something id Software hasn't been keen on doing since early Quake press releases, so id software will never match up to the "success" of Elder Scrolls. All RAGE got was "FROM THE CREATORS OF DOOM AND QUAKE" which isn't exactly true, either, and the irrelevance of those names toward the XboxLiveCallOfDootyDemographic didn't help sell the game.


:(

I'm optimistic hoping that kotaku article is just sensationalist bullshit coming right off the heels of the LucasArts closure as exploitation for site hits.
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scar3crow
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Re: Report: Troubled Doom 4 being retargeted for next-genera

Post by scar3crow »

Its okay, it also works for the same purpose when RPS quotes snippets with their own hyperbole and just links out.

I've no idea what to expect with Doom 4 honestly. So long as they're keeping gamepads in mind, it isn't going to be like Doom or Doom 2. If it is like anything, it will be a slower Doom 3.
...and all around me was the chaos of battle and the reek of running blood.... and for the first time in my life I knew true happiness.
mankrip
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Re: Report: Troubled Doom 4 being retargeted for next-genera

Post by mankrip »

scar3crow wrote:So long as they're keeping gamepads in mind, it isn't going to be like Doom or Doom 2.
What about all the console ports of Doom and Doom II, with the original levels and gameplay intact?

Of course, aiming with a mouse is faster, but it's just an optional feature. It isn't like Quake 3, where anyone without a mouse will have their asses handed to them (even by bots).

As for me, I'd love a simple Doom 64 port with the 2D sprites replaced with their source 3D models. They could even call it Doom 6⁴, to follow the trend of the previous one.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh mankrip Hell's end wgah'nagl fhtagn.
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leileilol
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Re: Report: Troubled Doom 4 being retargeted for next-genera

Post by leileilol »

Impossible. Midway is dead. They owned Doom64. Your best bet is to play it in Doom64ex.
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scar3crow
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Re: Report: Troubled Doom 4 being retargeted for next-genera

Post by scar3crow »

Those console ports are good, but they are good because it is just much harder on a gamepad. The game expects you to be able to switch to specific weapons on demand, but the gamepad only allows for cycling. It expects faster turning as well, and odd turning while moving around a lot, and engaging with multiple targets. You can play it, I've seen people play it, and I've played it - everyone agreed it was a more punishing experience, and they pointed to the gamepad, even the console fans did, as to why it was more punishing. A new product will not come out as "punishing", they will make it work for the gamepads, and PCs will get slower gameplay.
...and all around me was the chaos of battle and the reek of running blood.... and for the first time in my life I knew true happiness.
mankrip
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Re: Report: Troubled Doom 4 being retargeted for next-genera

Post by mankrip »

leileilol wrote:Impossible. Midway is dead. They owned Doom64.
So it's in licensing hell. Sad news.
scar3crow wrote:The game expects you to be able to switch to specific weapons on demand, but the gamepad only allows for cycling.
Not Doom 64. It allows you to define the next weapon before the current weapon finishes fading out. So, if you're holding the shotgun and press the "next weapon" button 4 times, it will switch to the rocket launcher. I've implemented this same mechanism in my JoyMenu mod, which features "fading out" animations for the viewmodels in Quake.
scar3crow wrote:It expects faster turning as well, and odd turning while moving around a lot, and engaging with multiple targets. You can play it, I've seen people play it, and I've played it - everyone agreed it was a more punishing experience, and they pointed to the gamepad, even the console fans did, as to why it was more punishing.
I've finished all of Doom II on the keyboard in 1997, and I've never felt it was any hard to control. Using the mouse was actually unbearable to me at the time, and I wondered who would ever like using it.

The question is, were Doom and Doom II developed with mouse + keyboard in mind as the preferred control method, or was the mouse support just included as an option? I've never read Masters of Doom, and I don't remember it being mentioned in any interviews with the developers. But I bet they were aware that at that time, the vast majority would never use a mouse to aim.
scar3crow wrote:A new product will not come out as "punishing", they will make it work for the gamepads, and PCs will get slower gameplay.
Aiming is not everything. A game can have blazing fast run, jump, item collecting and switches activation action while having slower aiming.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh mankrip Hell's end wgah'nagl fhtagn.
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scar3crow
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Re: Report: Troubled Doom 4 being retargeted for next-genera

Post by scar3crow »

That is Doom 64, it sounds like a nice feature. XBLA Doom/2 requires you manually cycle through each gun as they raise and lower.

I played plenty of Doom keyboard only myself, as Quake introduced me to play with the mouse. The gamepad is the worst experience of the lot for fast movement and angle adjustment. True aiming isn't everything, but fast aiming is a part of Doom, so when people appeal to "being like the originals", it sets an immediate conflict between platforms supported and having similar gameplay to the original. The gamepad is slower than the keyboard which is slower than keyboard mouse, and in a franchise where you can almost outrun your own rockets, that difference becomes huge.
...and all around me was the chaos of battle and the reek of running blood.... and for the first time in my life I knew true happiness.
leileilol
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Re: Report: Troubled Doom 4 being retargeted for next-genera

Post by leileilol »

scar3crow wrote:That is Doom 64, it sounds like a nice feature.
It's been standard for Unreal engine games as well
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frag.machine
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Re: Report: Troubled Doom 4 being retargeted for next-genera

Post by frag.machine »

mankrip wrote:
scar3crow wrote:As for me, I'd love a simple Doom 64 port with the 2D sprites replaced with their source 3D models.
Most Doom sprites where digitalized images from clay models.
EDIT: Never saw the Revenant model before, it's actually quite detailed.
I know FrikaC made a cgi-bin version of the quakec interpreter once and wrote part of his website in QuakeC :) (LordHavoc)
leileilol
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Re: Report: Troubled Doom 4 being retargeted for next-genera

Post by leileilol »

Doom64 didn't use those.
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scar3crow
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Re: Report: Troubled Doom 4 being retargeted for next-genera

Post by scar3crow »

frag.machine's use of quotes confused me, for a moment I was thinking "Did I really say that about sprites? Really?" I was very tired on my previous posts, so I actually went and read up just to be sure... Don't discuss games when exhausted folks.
...and all around me was the chaos of battle and the reek of running blood.... and for the first time in my life I knew true happiness.
frag.machine
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Re: Report: Troubled Doom 4 being retargeted for next-genera

Post by frag.machine »

scar3crow wrote:frag.machine's use of quotes confused me, for a moment I was thinking "Did I really say that about sprites? Really?" I was very tired on my previous posts, so I actually went and read up just to be sure... Don't discuss games when exhausted folks.

woah sorry, I meant to quote mankrip.
@leileilol: interesting, so doom64 used real 3d models ?
I know FrikaC made a cgi-bin version of the quakec interpreter once and wrote part of his website in QuakeC :) (LordHavoc)
leileilol
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Re: Report: Troubled Doom 4 being retargeted for next-genera

Post by leileilol »

Doom64 used sprites of pre-rendered CGI models.
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mankrip
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Re: Report: Troubled Doom 4 being retargeted for next-genera

Post by mankrip »

frag.machine wrote:woah sorry, I meant to quote mankrip.
@leileilol: interesting, so doom64 used real 3d models ?
As leileilol said, Doom 64 followed the Donkey Kong Country approach, which is why I've posted that.

Doom 64 used sprites, but the 3D models that were created for pre-rendering those sprites must still exist somewhere. It would be just a matter of using them with an upgraded version of the Doom 64 engine.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh mankrip Hell's end wgah'nagl fhtagn.
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