player.mdl GPL?

[r00k]

I'm curious about one asset of shareware quake, given the fact that 3wave CTF comes with the original player model with new skins.
Is it because Zoid worked for id afterwards? Can I include the CTF player model into an installer? Should ID release the player model under the GPL and alleviate the confusion?
I know these are questions for idSoftware; and can imagine the answer. I just though i'd ask out loud.

[Spike]

many mods include modified quake content, like textures...
just because someone else has opened it in some modeling program and added an extra texture does not mean that the resulting derivative work is not also covered by id's copyright.
technically you shouldn't be distributing it at all, but id's basically okay with it so long as its meant to require the full version of quake.

which tbh is the big issue with custom engines not enforcing demo-version gamedir/pak restrictions.

simply put, its not freeware.

[leileilol]

I don't think we need to appeal any more Quake content to be GPL'ed.

What we really need to do is teach how to use Blender and the MDL exporter. The more decent content we have made from scratch (Decent != Zombie trees), the less constant abuse of the EULAs.

[r00k]

true, i just wanted to make a ctf installer for some old players, and noticed 3wave has a player model.... just didnt want to unzip that to sidestep a legal issue.

[Dr. Shadowborg]

I don't think we need to appeal any more Quake content to be GPL'ed.

What we really need to do is teach how to use Blender and the MDL exporter. The more decent content we have made from scratch (Decent != Zombie trees), the less constant abuse of the EULAs.

I've been giving this some thought lately, halfway crazy and stupid enough to actually give making a GPL pack for quake a shot. Is the OQPlus stuff still around?

Also, what precisely would be acceptable theme styles for a OpenQuake project? Would it be acceptable to simply model your own ogre complete with chainsaw, etc? (as long as you did everything from scratch) Or would you need to actually have different, but similar monsters?

[leileilol]

I'd just settle on something quake-ish inspired (usage of brown; centered weapons; ambiguous presence of eyes) with no drastic deviances like turning nailguns into real world firearms (which could be considered non-Free in itself for being an actual gun design, how ironic for Free Software)

And no I wouldn't take it into an anime-styled thing.

Has anyone played Chasm: The Rift? That has somewhat of a Quake-ish art direction, and also is partially influenced by Unreal's early previews. It's no direct clone of Quake but it does have a surprisingly similar atmosphere.


There would probably be engine technology politics covered into it (i.e. the push for IQM I sometimes see in other projects). I'd probably keep it simple and still use MDL and WAV, and have external .lits for maps, and try to keep polycounts low, and textures lower (no 320x200 textures)

[taniwha]

For a base "OpenQuake", I'd have to agree that mdl, wav and POT friendly 8-bit textures would be the way to go. However, that doesn't mean there can't be an enhanced version (possibly using the enhanced version to help generate the base version).

I had a laugh the other day: I was working on a face model in blender and it had more quads than player.mdl has tris, and I hadn't done around the eyes or the ears. The "super hero" in Jonathan Williamson's old low-poly character tut has about twice as many faces (quads?). Quake's models are actually very good considering the constraints.

[Spirit]

Also, what precisely would be acceptable theme styles for a OpenQuake project? Would it be acceptable to simply model your own ogre complete with chainsaw, etc? (as long as you did everything from scratch) Or would you need to actually have different, but similar monsters?

It would probably be the best to create new monstersin the style and world of Quake. If you try to remodel the original monsters, you will always be compared to the originals and that would be a hard burden to work with. It would be super important not to fall into a cartoonish style like many of the fan projects do.

[taniwha]

I was initially thinking we'd need monsters with similar attacks, but then I realized that since we would need new sounds, might as well come up with new attacks, too. With that, you don't have to worry about your chainsaw wielding non-ogre being compared to an ogre.

[goldenboy]

just because someone else has opened it in some modeling program and added an extra texture does not mean that the resulting derivative work is not also covered by id's copyright.

This.

Would it be acceptable to simply model your own ogre complete with chainsaw, etc? (as long as you did everything from scratch)

No. If it looks like a Quake ogre, walks like a Quake ogre, and talks like a Quake ogre, it is a derivative work (and no, you can not release a derivative work under a new license because you are not the creator).

Doing from scratch something that looks almost identical to the real thing is an imitation and a derivative work.

This is why you cannot have a free Quake. If it looks like Quake, it is a derivative work. And if it doesn't look like Quake, what's the point anyway.

Also, why is this even needed? Quake can be bought for really cheap on Steam. Millions of people buy games there, so if people wanted to play Quake, they can simply grab it. But they don't precisely because there is no audience for it.

[leileilol]

if people wanted to play Quake, they can simply grab it. But they don't precisely because there is no audience for it.

Haven't we been through this before?

[r00k]

true. maybe ill use the openquartz player instead. i think the skins are compatible.

[leileilol]

OQ's player has compatible UVmaps yes (surprising for a scratch model made in 2000), and is okay if you can tolerate the run-flailing-around-like-an-idiot animations and one handed knife and gun.

It's not hard to make a player.mdl uv compatible model from scratch, though it generally requires a bulky proportion. Don't expect it to work with stuff like anime girls and cars

[Dr. Shadowborg]

No. If it looks like a Quake ogre, walks like a Quake ogre, and talks like a Quake ogre, it is a derivative work (and no, you can not release a derivative work under a new license because you are not the creator).

Doing from scratch something that looks almost identical to the real thing is an imitation and a derivative work.

This is why you cannot have a free Quake. If it looks like Quake, it is a derivative work. And if it doesn't look like Quake, what's the point anyway.

That's more or less what I was afraid of. And also there's that annoying little problem of allowing mods to work with the opensource project. (this would technically be not legal if it contained any id derived stuff)

*shrugs*

Probably better to focus on my OpenSmash project anyway.

[qbism]

There's always parody.