Prydon Gates Mod

Discuss anything not covered by any of the other categories.
ceriux
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Post by ceriux »

no i believe its part of what lags the game, also its very hard to maneuver with. the player always gets caught on things and what not. what you see as the "player" is actually a clone of the player an extra entitie which isnt needed.
leileilol
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Post by leileilol »

ceriux wrote:what you see as the "player" is actually a clone of the player an extra entitie which isnt needed.
It is needed. Obviously you have never coded long enough to deal with the restrictive refdef/playerphysics system.

Also, keep in mind that Prydon Gate was designed for WinQuake at a minimum - this was at a time when engine's standards weren't set in stone and every coder had their own silly NetQuake client. The only thing in common between them was alpha support (sometimes) and some snow effects.
Last edited by leileilol on Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ceriux
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Post by ceriux »

no your right it is needed for that type of gameplay but if you were to use first person. it wouldnt be needed... so in a sence its an entitie thats not needed. confusing i suppose...
leileilol
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Post by leileilol »

First person prydon would be missing the whole point. Another anomaly for compatibility should Prydon be in first person would be the items system - you'd get some floating club in your view not aligned to your aim, chopping around. This would be bad. You could say "oh that's not needed, make a viewmodel", well the viewmodel system is used to display the items when you view them

Really what you're asking for is a new project. Go make one yourself if you feel Prydon does a lot of things that is "not needed". Making it first person action would destroy the balance and form of the game

by the way, movetype_follow is awesome
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ceriux
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Post by ceriux »

ceriux wrote:i would continue but id rather try n make a game like prydon with an aim to run smoother. which would require new game play elements and more. which this has been a pretty hard goal since well my real pc died (which i plan to at least get it operational) on top of that my qc has become extremely rusty i was gone 8 months and never got to touch it.


Leilei read, comprehend, pull the stick out of your ass!
Sajt
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Post by Sajt »

ceriux, you yourself ought to grow up and stop rejecting advice given in this forum and being generally rude. If you think you know better then stop coming here.

What you want has apparently nothing to do with Prydon Gate. If you wanted to "change" Prydon Gate to use a first-person action paradigm, you'd have to rewrite basically everything codewise. You'd have to totally change the gameplay design as well. And of course you'd need new maps and so on. The result would have NOTHING in common with Prydon Gate, unless you ripped off FrikaC's made-up world and had towns called Capel Curig and Fort Rico Suave.
Chip wrote:Why don't you take Prydon's Gate source and clean it up, optimize it, rewrite functions, profile QC and make it smoother?

You could then work on DP engine to strip out all unnecessary data and make the game smoother again.

You could call it Prydon's Gate Extended, or Prydon's Gate 2. That would be something!

On a slightly offtopic note (as Prydon is DP dependent), I'm stripping down DarkPlaces in order to optimize it and clean it for my mod/game. You can read all about it here:

http://www.quakewiki.net/stripping-down-darkplaces/
http://www.quakewiki.net/more-darkplace ... dventures/
Prydon Gate's QC is not clean? Changing the indentation won't make it run any faster. There's not much you can do otherwise except code stuff in the engine or use/add new extensions (Prydon Gate was designed to run with NO extensions).

On a side note, Chip, removing things from DP won't get you anywhere. It won't run any faster, you'll probably break it, nobody else will use it, and you'll have tons of trouble incorporating new changes (eg bugfixes) from the DP svn.

I used to 'strip down' Quake engines too (I even removed networking and QuakeC more than once). It helped me learn how the engines worked, develop overall programming knowledge, and, well, pass the time, but trust me, give it a few years and you'll come full circle and stop doing it. Moving backwards (which is what it is) is a pretty big waste of time, especially if you actually plan on ever finishing a mod/game project.

If there are performance issues with Prydon Gate (on old computers), it probably has to do with the Quake engine not being suited for rendering maps from a top-down view. If there is jerkiness, it could probably be remedied by playing on a modern system to avoid low (and variable) FPS. And maybe use an engine that can enforce a constant FPS (like DP apparently can).

If you decided to do a first/third person action-RPG, Prydon Gate is NOT the place to start.
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ceriux
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Post by ceriux »

if EITHER of you would stop being rude yourselfs you would see that from the begging i never said i was going to or wanted to change prydon gate! the last time i did do or say anything about prydon gate was updating it with more content and csqc... if you and or leilei werent so rude yourself and actually read what i did say. is i said IF i was going to do anything i would want to make a game like prydon gate ( another words an rpg/orpg ) with different gameplay styles and other things. both of you need to take a step back and click the link that points to the beginning of the topic and actually read the whole post with everything that was said instead of assuming that im saying something im not and becoming rude yourselfs!
Sajt
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Post by Sajt »

First of all, your first posts did mention wanting to update Prydon Gate to use a "Gothic 2" style control system (third person). Then after Chip's post you said you were considering modding Prydon Gate to use first or third-person view, non-random items, md3s, etc. Okay, I reread the first page and somewhere in one of your posts you did mention making a new game, but other than that you were talking about Prydon Gate. It wasn't very clear at all. (Nor do I know what "orpg" is supposed to mean. Online? Overhead?)

Reacting with hostility to a helpful but now apparently mistaken post from leileilol isn't a good way to ingratiate yourself to forum members, many of whom know a lot of things and could help you if you're patient.

edit: I'm just pointing this out for your benefit. Generally you should avoid as much as possible getting angry or hostile on the internet. Though it wasn't evident in his post here, leileilol often is pretty blunt in his posts, but if you get used to him and "learn his language" you'll be able to read his posts properly and get his point, which is usually constructive. The same goes for posts from almost everyone here. The people who have been here for years generally don't have the energy to participate in pointless shouting contests, but it's still counterproductive to annoy them. So just be patient with us old-timers! If someone misinterpreted your post, take the time to explain it civilly, and if your heartrate is getting a little high, re-read your post a few times before sending it :) In time, we may forgive you for some bluntness in your posts, and "learn your language" so to speak, but that's not possible if your entire post is basically a provocation.

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Chip
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Post by Chip »

ceriux wrote:once your done id love to have that stripped down version of DP. as long as it still has frikfile and most of the DP extensions. maybe just rip out most of the "special effects" type things.
Well, yeah, I'll make it public after I remove all features I don't need. The list of what I removed is there, and frikfile and most of the DP extensions will stay.
Sajt wrote:On a side note, Chip, removing things from DP won't get you anywhere. It won't run any faster, you'll probably break it, nobody else will use it, and you'll have tons of trouble incorporating new changes (eg bugfixes) from the DP svn.
First of all I don't want to incorporate changes (bugfixes) from the DP SVN (which I'm updating daily, by the way). I have a fellow coder documenting the code and checking the functions. I'm using a May 2010 build as a base for my mod/game.

Second, I won't break it as I'm coding carefully, testing it, profiling it, then test it again.

I'm stripping it down for my own mod/game. I don't need CD playing stuff, demos, stereo view and many, many more.

Do I need r_bloom? Do I need r_hdr? Do I need both?

Regarding speed, I already did some changes that got me 2 more frames per second (I read some posts on the Xonotic forum, combined the code, simplified some code and got myself a smaller function) - the offset relief mapping.

Right now I'm working on adding shadow attenuation for real time lighting, i.e. soft blurred shadows - bullets on the floor have a hard-edged shadow and don't look realistic.

I'll keep you posted. :wink:
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Urre
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Post by Urre »

I must also agree that what you're doing is probably not the optimal target of your attention Chip, why not just work with what DP gives you if it's a DP game you want to make? Also, doesn't DP already have soft shadows?
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ceriux
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Post by ceriux »

either way i dont see him doing what hes doing as a bad thing. i also feel that DP is overloaded with features. it would be nice to have something like a DP-light.

next. once again i wasnt saying i was going to update prydon with gothic 2 gameplay at that time in me posting i was saying it would have been better in my oppinion with that type of gameplay. next i believe i posted about how i had started updating prydon earlier in my time here in the forums, we added basic csqc support, new maps and i believe new monsters. we were in the process of making new visuals as well, i was working on a new player model. but the other person i was working with disappeared and i lost interest.

after that it was just what i would do IF i was to make a game and what i felt might be what causes some of the laggyness in the game.

my posts mainly are talking about how i feel would be the best approach at making a game similar to prydon which would play nicer mechanically.

im sorry if i jumped to conclusions , but i really hate when people put words in my mouth and tell me im wrong for something i never really said. im also sorry for replying defensively for a few posts in which i felt were more like attacks rather than supposedly helpful posts.

(also orpg means online role playing game =) )
Chip
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Post by Chip »

Urre wrote:I must also agree that what you're doing is probably not the optimal target of your attention Chip, why not just work with what DP gives you if it's a DP game you want to make? Also, doesn't DP already have soft shadows?
Yes, but DP has stuff I don't need if I'll ever release the game. I need to have the smallest base before starting to build upon it.

Also, running through the engine and deleting useless (for me) blocks of code makes me more familiar with it and the coding style.

DP does not have soft shadows for bullets.
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leileilol
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Post by leileilol »

You could just get rid of the stupid gecko bloat, why that was a good idea is anyone's guess. Nexuiz/Xonotic is responsible for the feature creep. If Darkplaces keeps this up, it'll end up just like Source (and if you think that's a good thing, then you're an idiot).

By the way, the recent 2010 builds of Darkplaces can run on Pentium II machines fine in terms of memory consumption and loading times. It's a feat that it still does this with all this "bloat". Yes, you can even run Nexuiz on such a machine with a 3dfx Voodoo Banshee. Yes, it still looks like Nexuiz.
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scar3crow
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Post by scar3crow »

Chip wrote:DP does not have soft shadows for bullets.
By soft shadows, I assume you mean shadowmaps, versus multiple stencil shadows, or some weird blob system. But... for bullets? If they are an art asset in the game world, a shadowmapped gameworld will include them in their pass.

My idea of a "stripped down" DarkPlaces is... DirectQuake? Something along those lines.
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mh
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Post by mh »

A funny thing about "bloat" is that it doesn't actually use up any extra memory or CPU. Code that's never run is never actually paged in, so executable size genuinely doesn't matter. Size of code has not as much to do with execution speed as you might think - I can show you 600 lines of code that run much faster than 2 lines but yet do the exact same thing.

The whole "bloat" thing is actually a colossal myth (or lie, take your pick).
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