Base QuakeC - progs 2.0

[Baker]

Urre started the Quake Standards Base engine idea.

What would you like to see in an imaginary QuakeC 2.0 ... i.e. not progs 1.06 but progs 2.0?

Using traditional Quake or not, modified features or not, modified features or not.

My short list would be:

1. func_ladder
2. func_door_rotating
3. func_rotating
4. func_tree or func_object with the model specified
5. func_deadbody
6. Some sort of daytime / nighttime mechanism uses metlslime's lightstyles idea if that would turn out well
7. Optional Deathviews or whatever that is call where on dead you see yourself die in the third person
8. First person / third person perspective toggles
9. Multiplayer coop spawn from single info_player_start spot solution
10. deathmatch 3. Sheesh!
11. Pushables
12. Breakables
13. Using the cd music svc to be able to change the background music with info_player_music or something.

What are yours? We have modified engines, isn't it about time a bigger and better progs 1.06 existed?

It's only 14 years later ...

(Btw, the idea wouldn't be to bloat the thing, but keep it reasonable and slim.)

[Downsider]

I think it should be a base for modding, not Quake. Strip out a lot of the Quake stuff, make it clean, something to start with.

Should definitely have some monster AI snippets and func_rotating though.

[mh]

QuakeII/HexenII style units/hubs and map re-entry via startspots and info_player_start2/whatever is a must (even though it would also require engine modification, we already have a good chunk of the code needed in the #ifdef QUAKE2 stuff). Quake mapping is still constrained to each map existing in isolation, and we need to give mappers the ability to break away from that if they wish.

[Baker]

I think it should be a base for modding, not Quake. Strip out a lot of the Quake stuff, make it clean, something to start with.

Should definitely have some monster AI snippets and func_rotating though.

I agree with that for sure.

At the same time, I personally crave great Quake single player releases that allow more atmosphere. The last 3 that were memorable to me: A Roman Wilderness Of Pain (the was an immortal release), NSOE (different as hell - dragons!) and Forwards Compatible (techy yet Quakey ... absolutely superb).

i.e. Better to use "Quake" as the single player platform which is certain to get used and debugged and through that give total conversion attempts more freedom.

[c0burn]

My idea for this would be:

- remove all use of aim() function, or have it as a cvar option. sv_aim is stupidly on by default in most engines still.
- a new default.cfg to override the one in pak0.pak. Sensible modern keybaord configuration and autorun/mouselook by default.
- MenuQC and CSQC to replicate the ID behaviour with some additional niceties, e.g. - map picker showing all maps available, more customisation of options not on the normal menu.. Probably a pain in the arse due to DP and FTE differences.
- All URQP bugfixes included. Minus the crazy comments. Some of the stuff fixed in that mod is pretty essential (velocity fix on spawn, teleport fixes, trace weapon fixes, bubble entity leak, etc etc)
- Extras_r4 included
- Massive cleanup and overhaul of some of the more horrible code (mostly the items and powerup stuff is especially vile), and stuff like the player animations code is pretty horrible. Some stuff I consider "bugs" are to do with pain sounds not playing while in another animation cycle, etc, but I guess that's a behaviour change that doesn't fit the scope of this.
- Split the code into more files. Some of the code is in odd places.
- Few simple DM additions such as the Q3 "beep" when you hit someone, with a cvar toggle - which should be off by default and enabeld with one of the unused stock cvars (saved1-4, etc)

I had most of this done once, and lost it. C'est la vie. It was very nice modding base.

[Baker]

Optional weapon reload.
Optional weapon transition time when you can't fire (no more miraculous switching to, say, the grenade launcher AND firing in a microsecond).
Optional "traditional" grappling hook built-in.
Some sort of basic stats accumulated in deathmatch (at least 1993 Doom ... like number of times you died!) and optionally Frik_File written at end of the level.

[ceriux]

I think it should be a base for modding, not Quake. Strip out a lot of the Quake stuff, make it clean, something to start with.

Should definitely have some monster AI snippets and func_rotating though.

[Junrall]

#Basic client side bot spawning... with rankings, physics, and perhaps directional movement code.
#Alternate movetogoal that allows monsters to smoothly move over gaps and ledges.
#VWeps.
#Alternate or new traceline that provides more info in a single function? Or something similar.

[Swift]

I registered to post in this thread. : )

Strip some functionality and shift into a seperate client side progs.
For example: Can/should ambient sounds be done in client side?

MD3/DPM players and a Quake 3 CFG reader for player models.

[Teiman]

I registered to post in this thread. : )

wellcome!

For example: Can/should ambient sounds be done in client side?

Most mods don't seems to need it, since ambient sounds are already supported by what we have, and most people seems happy with what we have.
If you can spawn sounds with CSQC, you can let these that want more advanced ambient effects have it, programming it.

[ceriux]

maybe add a little csqc in?

[Error]

I personally think we should make 4 sources (if not 5).

Quaked QC Source : slightly modified to make it easier to use, add in all the features that modders generally want in their own mods (ladders, etc.), well commented, well laid out (w_shotgun.qc has all the code for shotguns).

CSQC: Quaked QC Source but CSQC'd with all the original HUD implemented into the CSQC. Well commented and easy to learn.

Menu QC: Quaked menu converted into menu-qc form. well commented to make it easier to learn.

QWQC : re-written and commented for easier use and orgranization. with a text explaining all the differences from regular QC.

New Scratch Source : stripped QuakeC source, with all the neccessities... add in FrikaC's mathlib, etc.

this would suck to do, but would be an amazing achievement. the community needs some of these!

[Sajt]

Another bugfix to add: call setsize in the explobox spawn functions. Otherwise the pak2.pak out there won't work in old engines (the exploboxes will have tiny bboxes).

misc_explobox: setsize (self, '0 0 0', '32 32 64');
misc_explobox2: setsize (self, '0 0 0', '32 32 32');

[Junrall]

Don't know if this is a dead horse or not...

What about a simple physics system?
I tried out Quake Matt's Gyro and find it to be very interesting. Maybe something like this could be implemented in an imaginary progs 2.0

Has anybody made any heavy use of Gyro?

EDIT:
I keep coming back and re-reading this whole discussion. I really like the idea of something along the lines of a progs 2.0.
What is the reality that this could/would happen? I think it's a great idea in that it may be fairly easy, it would tighten our little Quake community, and offer greater avenues for new and old QC coders alike... and certainly may inspire some new maps as well. Also, this may help paint a clearer vision for those who wish to standardize engine-side features.
Personally, I think this would be fun to do... and be fun for those who are just following the progress.

I feel that Error has the right idea:

I personally think we should make 4 sources (if not 5).

Quaked QC Source : slightly modified to make it easier to use, add in all the features that modders generally want in their own mods (ladders, etc.), well commented, well laid out (w_shotgun.qc has all the code for shotguns).

CSQC: Quaked QC Source but CSQC'd with all the original HUD implemented into the CSQC. Well commented and easy to learn.

Menu QC: Quaked menu converted into menu-qc form. well commented to make it easier to learn.

QWQC : re-written and commented for easier use and orgranization. with a text explaining all the differences from regular QC.

New Scratch Source : stripped QuakeC source, with all the neccessities... add in FrikaC's mathlib, etc.

this would suck to do, but would be an amazing achievement. the community needs some of these!

I just wonder... I can't imagine all of the above being tackled at once, but maybe a couple at a time.
So, I guess I'm just going to put this out there... How many of us are interested in breathing some life into Baker's imaginary progs 2.0?
I for one would love to give it a go. I'm not real experienced, but I can figure things out... with minimal babysitting

[frag.machine]

As someone already pointed out in another thread, fix all functions that currently are hardwired to refer self for accept an arbitrary entity as input. Code uniformity is a bless.

Also, in my wishlist that would contain out-of-the-box:
- as many QRP fixes as possible;
- FrikBot support;
- Pox' Extras;
- Matt's GYRO.

Something I adopted in my current mod is to split all missile attacks in a separated .qc file and then all the weapons are just bounded to the corresponding fireSomeStuff() function. It's far from ideal because the functions don't have a fixed signature yet, but that helps a lot to reuse code.